by Jim
“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.” – Budda
We left off last week with what should have been the next to last post about my debt journey. The final should have been doing the Dave Ramsey Shout that We’re Debt Free. Yes it was going to take us longer, since I decided to work for myself, but we would have gotten there eventually. This was a mutual decision by both the wife and I. We both knew that if I just got another job, that my dream of becoming an entrepreneur would probably never happen. Plus the added bonus of being at home with my family was an added perk.
Well in March 2013, we started getting phone calls from Wells Fargo. It started with one, then escalated to around six a day. All stating one thing, that the mortgage payment has not been paid since September 2012.
Six months! My wife’s ex, hasn’t paid in six months! He gave us so many excuses, that we lost track of all the lies he told us. We didn’t have money for a lawyer and we didn’t know what to do. We tried to get advice before and our lawyer royally screwed us over.
Back then, she told us the best thing to do was to get an assumption. Well come to find out the day of our court trial, this assumption would get my wife’s name off the deed, but not the mortgage. We had to throw the case out, as this wouldn’t have been a good option for us.
In October of 2013, we find out that he is moving out of the house, and he was going to try to short sale it. If you aren’t keeping track of time, that is One year and one month of not paying the mortgage! I know people don’t want me calling this guy names and what not, but truly how can you do this?!? How can you do this when you have a daughter to provide for?
He moved into a house he was renting out to some woman (a woman that was supposedly buying this property from him, and his profits were going to pay on the back payments of the house.) This house was so tiny, you literally can walk three steps in the living room, and you are out of this room. How were five people supposed to live in this house?
Later that month, we were served with papers that the house was going into foreclosure. There was basically nothing we could do, so we decided to let it go. And right around Christmas, we come to find out that this was all part of this guy’s plan. He approached us and said he has been in talks with the bank to get a loan modification.
In my opinion, we should have gave him the finger and told him you know what. But my wife is the kinder of the two of us, she didn’t want our daughter to be living in that tiny house. So we ended up signing papers for this modification. He is planning to move back in at the end of this month. There is a three month trial period starting next month.
I am so sick of all this, it makes me stress to no end. And we are seeing all the after effects of it all. While he owns a house, co-owns this house, has 3 vans, two cars, and a RV (all of which were bought during the time he stopped paying on the mortgage.) I am really at a lost of what to do…
This house situation is dicey. I don’t know how to help outside of encouraging you to seek out low-cost legal assistance. Maybe the local bar organization can suggest some attorneys who will give some pro bono advice?
Even if this problem isn’t fixable in the short term, I always suggest researching the options so when the time is right, you’re ready to make a move.
I didn’t even know there were local bar organizations… I can look into that. Thanks
padorn my ignorance, but what is a loan modification? and why was that beneficial to him?
Can he just buy you guys out of the house? this seems like a huge ass hassle and i forsee lots of lawyer fees if it drags out with this type of person.
Are you guys open to just selling and splitting the money?
Well there are different types of loan modifications… I think he is trying to get the time he didn’t erased like it didn’t happen.
My wife and I want to sell it, the fact of the matter is he doesn’t. We would need to get a lawyer to force him to refinance (which he wouldn’t qualify for) or to sell.
I think the court system is your only option to get out of this house…I would agree that you should research pro bono or income based legal aid in your area. Most have huge practices in property law after the financial crisis. It’s not going to be a quick or ideal fix- it will be long and tedious, and won’t result in a perfect outcome for you. But it will be final and limit the later repercussions the house can have on your finances. I understand your reluctance based on past experiences with lawyers, but I would strongly, strongly consider it. Until this is resolved with finality, which is obviously not going to be hashed out between the parties, this will always be something that could hang over your head and destroy your wifes (and subsequently your) finances.
It’s not that I am reluctant, it’s the fact that I am not in the same financial situation I was in when we got the lawyer the first time. It will be a real hard strain to accomplish.
You are very right about everything you have said. It already has had some consequences, like what will be posted this afternoon.
Thanks Jessica!
Employee Assistance Programs (EAP’s) typically offer a small amount of legal counseling for free-enough for you to know a good direction to go. Does your wife work for a company that offers an EAP with her benefits?
My wife doesn’t work, she is disabled. :-/
I’d definitely would want to rinse my hands clean of this guy too and the co-owned house. Of course, he’ll always be in your life since he will still have part custody (i’m assuming) of his daughter. As a commenter said above, maybe there’s some pro bono legal aid in the area that you can obtain.
You are right, the wife reminds me of that every time the anger really starts to boil.
Exactly. Your goal now should be limit the amount of interference this fellow can have in your life. Stop trying to conserve money/credit where he is involved. Let the house go into foreclosure. If he chooses to live in a tiny house with the daughter, so be it. Your wife chose to have a kid with him; she has to parent with him but she does NOT have to be his financial drama support system.
THe only other thing I would suggest is trying to take this to mediation instead of the court in order to have a third party deal with him. Supposedly mediation can be cheaper. But I have a feeling this dude might spin mediation on and on too.
Ugh, NEVER mix finances with people you’re not married to. Marriage is a legal contract! At least you have rights with a contract!
So true Kerry! This might be an option, I will look into it more. He is actually planning to move back into the house while the modification is happening. It was approved for a trial plan.
I think that you need to think strategically about this too–from what you’ve told us, he’s in debt, fickle, impulsive and unreliable. If that’s true, you can start to use that to your advantage if you think up ways he’s going to fail, and start to move strategically NOW to be able to put him in a vise when that happens. That might mean you store up cash and bribe him to put the house on the market or offer him money to move/a downpayment for a quit claim and his cut when the house sells the next time he is in financial trouble. (Oh and GET IT IN WRITING! See a lawyer if possible now.) It’s painful but think long-term. If you get him out of your finances, will things be better in 10 years? Will it lessen your stress?
To be honest, I don’t anything to do with this house anymore. My wife is at a lost, that I take it on my shoulders to deal with him. These are all great ideas, I hope that I can do just one of them. Thanks Kerry!
were they married? was there a divorce decree? if so why was the house not included?
No Theresa, they were never married. :-/
I agree with Kerry that it may be at a point where legal resources should not be spared, though I understand there is not always a choice.
Were I in this situation I would consider the following options:
-Taking on more debt to get out of the situation, in the long-run it would probably be the cheaper option than letting this drag out.
-Attempting to barter services, perhaps you could find an attorney looking for web design (I think you mentioned doing that as one of your gigs?)
-Seeing if I could find a lawyer willing to take a small retainer in exchange for potential future profits. Would you make a profit if your share of the house was sold? Could you find a lawyer willing to work with the promise of receiving all of your share of the profits?
-Back to work in the restaurant industry. I know that it is not your ideal choice and that you do not want to do so while your daughter is in school since you would have such fleeting moments with her. But summer is right around the corner, will she be in school? Or would you be able to spend days with her and head off to a 4pm or 5pm shift in the afternoon?
Sometimes, simply the threat of litigation can induce compliance. You may only need an attorney to draft a document to him laying out potential options to resolve the issue and insisting he make a choice. Especially as housing loan remodification options are becoming stricter, the threat of litigation could stall his application indefinitely! At this point, if you wife is receiving half a dozen calls a day regarding the mortgage, it is a pretty sure bet that it is already affecting her credit. A swift and final resolution may be the best way to save it.
Cheers,
Meghan
I am not really even sure if I can take on more debt, well besides the credit cards I already have. This whole ordeal really nailed our credit score. Your options seem reasonable, and I will have to look into all of them.
I know the threat of litigation wouldn’t have him complying, that is why we had to go for a loan the last time. About the phone calls, I don’t think we received any this month, that might be because the modification went through.
Echoing what others have said about procuring legal advice. Check with the local bar association for leads on attorneys willing to do some pro bono work. Also, if you live near a law school, they often have legal aid clinics that provide services for free.
I have been in a similar situation with my ex. I do not know the specifics of your wifes relationship with her ex; but let me offer my insight and if it applies I hope it helps. My ex was very controlling at the end of our relationship; as such once we were proceeding with the divorce the only way he could control me, my emotions (he knew I wanted my kids in a safe place, ie the house), my finances, my sanity was by not paying the mortgage. He was living there, so for 9 months as he drug the divorce out(repeatedly firing attorneys on the day of court, so he could get an extentsion, etc…) The divorce was final he retained the home, my choice as I did not want to live in a residence he knew how to get into on a whim. He still refused to pay or refinance, I finally quit paying let it go into foreclosure and am now in the middle of a contempt hearing. Tell your wife she is enabling him right now to control her via the home, in my situation divorce decree made no difference to mortgage company. Let the house go; JUST let it GO. If he chooses to live in a small home, so be it, living in a small crowded home will not define your daughter, hopefully she is with yall most of the time anyway. It will affect her credit, but do it now instead of dragging this out for 4 years and having the same result. My experience is most creditors will give consideration if the rest of your credit is good and you can explain the foreclosure. My two cents, rambling as it is.
Thanks Misti, this does help. He was very controlling… when they first broke up, she lived there with him for a month or two, thinking she had no money. Because he had her money tied up into all the debt of his.
Thank you very much!
Adding my recommendation to just let the house go. Get out of it any way you can. Forget any equity, forget trying to save your credit score. Just get out. It’s all sunk cost. That money is gone, you’re not getting it back, you can’t change the past. Cut your losses and walk away. The drama will never stop. Foreclosure is probably the easiest way unless you can get him to refinance and get her name off the mortgage. It doesn’t sound like that’s an option, so there’s really not a lot you can do here.
My parents got divorced. My mum got the condo. It took years and thousands in lawyer fees and an arrest when he came to see his first granddaughter to get the quit claim deed. At this point, there was still a tax lien on it in his name. My mum won that court case after several thousand more dollars and won a settlement for lawyer fees and the lien. This was probably a decade after the actual divorce. Guess how much of it she got? That’s right $0. Combine that with the condo’s association problems and she ended up unable to sell it, unable to rent it and unable to keep it. It went into foreclosure anyway. All the mortgage payments and condo fees and upkeep and maintenance and renovation and lawyer fees and drama were all pointless and accomplished exactly nothing.
You want out, she wants out. Don’t let this drag on for another decade costing you thousands of dollars and countless hours of misery and drama.
Let it go. This guy is probably not going to make it through the trial for the modification, anyway.
Just concentrate on your debt, YOUR credit score and go on.