by Jim
This post was supposed to be my weekly update, but after reading the comments on the blog post from earlier today, I had to bring an update to that.
1. I never read that post over at Man vs Debt. I was shocked that it sounded so similar down to the same talking points. As it did sound too a like, I decided to delete it.
2. I didn’t write that post or any other post to try to get arguments, comments, or anything of the sort. And I want to point out that none of the bloggers here get paid to write here, as one of you mentioned.
3. That post had a lot to do with my debt. What if my wife and I were not on the same page?
4. It wasn’t supposed to be a judgmental post, I did want to see what the people that were doing separate finances had to say it.
5. Finally, and this is the one that will make the majority of you happy. Blogging has always made me happy until this writing on this blog, you really took that away from me, with all your criticism. Yes, there were many of you cheering me on, and I thank you for that. But I really want to thank all of you that were not, that is more motivational than anything. When I do get out of debt, I can think of all of you and say some unpleasantries.
I will be talking with Jeffrey tomorrow afternoon, and resign my position.
It has been for the most part great BAD community!
*Just a note* I have contacted MvD creator over this matter and hopefully he will email me back.
I’m sorry to hear this, Jim. I would like to say that the BAD community can really be brutal. I would never want to sign on if I had debt! If you read any of the other PF blogs, there seems to be a code that you don’t criticize anyone about their financial journey. One can really get flamed for not playing nice!
I don’t necessarily think that is so good either, not saying ANYTHING that is critical. However, here at BAD, I think a lot of people are simply hyper-critical to the extreme and really need to tone it down. They are putting our participants in a box with their blogging expectations. So what if our bloggers don’t post about every little dime they knocked off debt every time they blog. Sheesh. Get real, people.
I wish you well in your journey, Jim. You seem like a fine, young man to me.
I have to agree with Kiki here. I have been a longtime reader of BAD and do notice a trend. These bloggers have opened up their lives for review, constructive criticism, and encouragement. It’s different from writing your own blog wherein you can edit comments. (Yes, the PF community can be a little lightweight sometimes in that everything is always upbeat and “you can do it.”)
Because of a different format here, I think that BAD comments often border on bullying and rudeness. The bloggers don’t have that personal control.
Yes, there are many helpful ones, but it’s a little too easy to sit behind a computer screen and sling arrows. I can see why people in the past have dropped out before the end.
Please note: I’m not making any kind of judgment regarding Jim’s situation but just the tone of this site in general. Good luck to you Jim! And I don’t think anyone who serves honorably in the military has an authority problem as stated in a comment below.
Thanks Kiki. It is much appreciated!
Sorry Jim that you feel this way, but don’t blame the followers of BAD for their critical comments for your leaving. The fact is that you got caught stealing someone else’s material. None of the other bloggers here have gotten any kind of push back like this because their stories have been truthful and their own
I find it sad that people are so critical instead of encouraging. Hope your home business works out and you reach your goals. Best of luck.
Your previous post was obvious plagiarism of
http://manvsdebt.com/married-with-separate-finances-i-just-dont-get-it/
Not only did you copy the structure and ideas, but you also just copied entire sentences from that post. example for entire sentence: “I would have felt horrible receiving/giving “pay” to/from my wife” is the same in both posts. example for idea:
man vs debt: “His and Hers, rather than Ours. How in the world can people have separate finances and still avoid slipping into his bills, her bills, his debt, her debt, his spending, her retirement? I find it hard to find how this system promotes unity and communication.”
Your post: “Everything turns into His and Hers. With having separate accounts, how do you not fall into where it is his bills, her debt, my spending, your savings? I can see that it is possible that you still can communicate well, but where does unity come into play?”
Why play the victim?
Thank you, Ann! Specific exact phrases were used – just admit you used someone else’s material. Don’t blame the readers of this blog for being too harsh – none of the other bloggers here have nothing but support from us…then again, they are actually inviting us in to their lives and sharing their debt stories as promised
Not playing any victim here. I see the similarities all too clear. That is why the post was deleted, but I will not own up to something I did not do. I never saw that post, nor did I copy it.
I notice the post at the other blog is now gone too. The plot thickens….
I think the link in the above comment is wrong. The other post is still up at http://manvsdebt.com/married-with-separate-finances-i-just-dont-get-it/
Are you serious????
I could have written the exact same thing without having ever read both ManvsDebt or Jim’s articles!! Would I be accused of plagerizing too then??
So, I’m to never have an opinion that is similar to another human being??
His post is similar to ManvsDebt’s post in structure because that’s usually how you structure good posts and in content because they have the same common sense standpoints on the issue.
This is ridiculous.
See ya later Jim…hopefully on Amazon when you’re triple charging me…
I’m happy to hear you are leaving. I don’t really care so much about the obvious plagiarism, but more so that you basically full of you know what. Each post has been excuses,excuses, excuses. I don’t believe that you are ready to get out of debt. I think you are someone who struggles with rules, authority and judgement. Your desire to be “self-employed” is not a virtue, its a guise for your inability to hold a real job with any consistency. I wish the best on your journey.
Well said.
Wow, you can’t miss a day around here. Sorry you are leaving Jim. I hope you will at least consider some of the things that were discussed here. I do wish you and your family well. God speed!
Thank you Lynn.
i have to agree with morgan’s comment. i also have found jim’s old pf blogs and most of what he has posted here on bad is really just rehashed blog posts from a few years ago.
even so i really do wish for the best for his wife and children.
Good luck with your debt repayment! Even though this blog wasn’t the right fit for you, don’t let that hinder your journey. Best wishes for you and your family I hope you are able to see the fruition of your grandmas dream.
Asking because I’m confused (not because I’m trying to be mean or pile on). You said you didn’t write the other post to try to comments (or arguments), but you also said you wanted to see what people who do doing separate finances had to say. What is the difference?
What I meant MW, people were stating that I was writing just to incite arguments and comments. When in fact a good friend of mine consulted with me that he and his significant other were fighting about money and I found out that they had separate accounts, I just couldn’t comprehend this.
Dear Jim,
I am sorry you made the decision to leave. I would have liked for you to stay & let us know more about your journey. I wish you and your family all the best for your journey. Would be nice to hear from you again every 3 months or so.
In my opinion – apart from some very harsh and uncalled for comments – there was a lot of constructive criticism from the BAD-community, lots of suggestions to improve your financial situation, lots of suggestions to improve your writing, lots of suggestions to help you succeed.
Good luck!
Hi Jim,
a couple of more things regarding your current post:
commenting on “3. That post had a lot to do with my debt. What if my wife and I were not on the same page?”
If that’s the point you wanted to get accross, I think you could have done a “why i think joint finances are crucial”-post and explain the way you and your wife combat debt as a team. From my outside view I haven’t learned much about the contributions / involvement of your wife in this debt journey so far…
Commenting on “4. It wasn’t supposed to be a judgmental post, “. I think if you start a post with “Why on earth….” it IS inevitably viewed as a judgmental post… (just try it out in your head “Why on earth would anyone listen to Metal?”…. i do that myself, just as an example of how hurtful & judgmental those words come across…)
-> I think this all could have prevented with some prior proofreading, as suggested on earlier posts… this way you could have discussed with the proofreading person what points you WANT to get across and what points DO come across
All the best for you and your family! Hope we’ll still hear from you.
Hi Kili,
You are very right there is a lot of constructive criticism and I have taken lots under consideration and even implemented a few.
Thank you for your insightful second comment. I will be sure to do this next time.
You will still be hearing from me… after speaking with Jeffrey, I know my next course of action
For the people who run this blog: I am happy that I will not be reading Jim’s posts in my feed any more and that the BAD community caught his plagiarism. His posts have often left me with unpleasant feelings and I think it is a testament to the health of this community that poor behaviour can be noticed and openly discussed.
Jim,
I didn’t see the other blog post, have no clue if it was copied or not, and have enjoyed reading your other posts. Just a gentle question: are you sure you want to go out this way?
This blog post (the only one I’ve been able to see of this apparent big dustup I’ve missed) sounds, well, a bit unprofessional (OK I’ll be horribly blunt– whiny). Why not write another before you go, explaining your frustration when you wrote your second-to-last post, and go out on a more cordial note? Since you generally love blogging it would be great in the future to be able to point to a professional exit here, no?
Best of luck to you and your family in your future plans.
You are very right about this, I will not go out like this or anything like this way. In real life, I don’t give up and I will not give up until my debt is eliminated. As much as some people hate my writing style, my bad grammar, and everything else about me I will push on with everything!
Thank you!
Sorry to hear you are leaving Jim. I enjoyed your posts as they are coming from a completely different angle then others full-blast attack on debt. I thought it was great to have some contrast even if its not the way I would take.
Sorry that people are so critical of you. Best of luck to you and your family.
Thank you very much Angie!
I don’t know if the post in question was plagiarized or not. Though I must admit that from what I saw there were many red flags. No one but Jim will know for sure if it was coincidence or something more. I just hope all the BAD bloggers remember that if they ever do plagiarize the content of others they will be putting Jeffrey in a potentially devastating costly legal battle.
Jeffrey, if you don’t already have really good business insurance (including an umbrella policy protecting all your personal assets) I suggest you call your insurance agent today. As the owner of this site, you are responsible for the content your writers produce. Site owners get sued all the time for alleged plagiarism and many have lost everything as a result. You might want to be extra careful about verifying the character of all the people you have write for you.
i always thought Jeffrey and Nate picked 4 bloggers assuming that at least 1 would drop out fairly soon.
I missed the previous post that caused all the drama but wow, this was unexpected.
good luck, Jim.
3 bloggers in a row have dropped out well before finishing their journey, at least the last 2 because they didn’t enjoy their interaction with the community.
The hostility that was allowed to develop and escalate between Jim and the readers — and with the prior group too — needs to be discussed and addressed.
If I owned this blog, I would be preparing a crisis resolution post right now. The readership and income stream is at risk, and in times like this the leader needs to be visible, to stabilize the ship and set the course. In this case, that means providing the owner’s assessment of what has happened with Jim — and the prior group — and the owner’s direction (request, really, since comments are unmoderated) on how to move forward. Take a clear stand.
the readership isn’t going away. If you google “debt blog,” this site is the #1 result. some readers may leave but others will appear.
I think comments should be tightly moderated by someone who’s not the blogger writing the post.
Jim, I can understand where you’re coming from. It’s been quite … odd, for lack of a better word, to see how people have reacted to you. Yes, your writing could use some help, but I was able to follow everything you said. I don’t think you were ever unclear, and actually quite forthcoming. And, the truly important thing, you were doing things your way, and getting to your goals. Maybe not as fast as some folks might prefer, but that’s not on you, it’s on them. I think there was really only one time that I agreed with any criticism that people levelled at you, and it was something that you noted could be dealt with better. (no, your writing wasn’t it. :D) Too much of the rest of the criticism seemed far more personal than anything. Which, considering how some claimed to know nothing about you, is also a bit odd.
Just keep doing you. Take all the good information and make it work for you. Take all the crap information and use it to do you even better. I think you’ll be just fine. All the best.
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
I had wished i had seen this earlier!
I read that post you did.. I don’t think it was a bad post and it had really great points.
Do NOT resign the position, Jim! You’re the main reason that I keep checking this blog almost on a daily basis (except the past few days..been hectic)!
You are creative, think outside of the box, smart, and i think, you bring a completely different point of view from the typical bloggers. Your life is not picture perfect in terms of history but you are in the process of overcoming everything. It’s so much more interesting to read this and learn from your posts than to read about “My budget Totals of the Month” posts that most bloggers do.
For these reasons, you need to stay.
A note on how people keeps saying that he has bad grammar:
This is not a professional debt consultation/finance blog. This is about three real people writing about their lives.
Jim’s, ashley’s, and Hope’s writing style and grammar are at the same level. So, why pick on him only?
Sorry, i’m only now reading the post and the comments and I’m furious.
Hey, how are you seeing all the comments? It’s been deleted for me. Not sure how it got out of hand because it was pretty okay when i posted.
As someone that has commented about his writing in the past – i’ll definitely say I was talking more from a clarity point of view and not really spelling errors and typos. This is a written blog and the message is delivered by word. I think it’s helpful to know if what you are putting down is not what people are getting. Some say grammar is not important but consider these 2 classic sentences.
Woman, without her man, is nothing.”
“Woman! Without her, man is nothing!”
Punctuation alters the meaning quite a bit. Anyway, that is neither here nor there – I just wanted to explain that I honestly couldn’t follow some of his earlier posts because or run-on sentences and stuff like that. He did make a change and there was a difference and people didn’t talk about it much.
Look at maybe his last 3 or 4 posts. They garnered good responses. I don’t think people were trying to beat him down just because they had nothing else to do. There was definitely a lot of stuff that people responded to positively.
I didn’t see when the comments descended into cries about plagiarism so I’m not sure how that went down but I don’t think I’ve seen an instance were people got personally insulting in the comments. Some folks strongly disagreed with some things and I think that’s allowed to be voiced no?
Anyway, to Jim. I don’t think you should quit. Your last couple of posts showed that you can write stuff that people respond to here. I know that the owners are not really paying you guys so it’s not like a side-job or anything but I do think maybe just spend a little more time rereading your posts. No, it’s not a scholarly publication but as I mentioned earlier, the only form of communication on here are your words. There is no knowledge of your personality, tone or other things people use to inject meaning into the words you use so i’d select them a little more carefully.
Alright. This mini-blog post is done. I do hope you stay because, you have definitely proved interesting. Disagreement often leads to discovery and knowledge so I don’t think it’s bad. When you have to defend your position you learn more about why you have chosen to stand on that spot and in turn either cling harder to it or realize it is time to change.
If you paid a little more attention you’d realize that there are actually four bloggers on this site, not three.
And as for your comment that anyone could have written that post, you can’t deny that many phrases are almost directly stolen as Ann pointed out. It’s not the thought that frustrated people, it’s the plagiarism.
Final comment:
People comment on how they “would have” approached certain situations that jim’s been in differently. Guess what, we don’t always pick the picture perfect path in life. We, yes we, make mistakes. We are human. Different people take different paths/choices/decisions. This is what makes him unique.
Jim and the other bloggers are not on this blog saying that they are the financial gurus of the world. They are saying instead “we’ve made mistakes in the past and might still make mistakes still but we’re doing something about it. ”
That’s more admirable than people who sit behind the computer screens commenting about how they “would have” handled a situation better than the blogger did.
Thank you OC! Love everything you are saying, it means the world! After talking with Jeffrey, I will be sticking around.
I can’t help but feel this was a big stunt to get attention, comments, and sympathy from the BAD readers. Unbelievable.
that’s a bit far-fetched don’t you think? This isn’t quite beyonce/jayz level right now…
Well let’s see…this post has 41 (now 42) comments, and a quick scroll down through others’ posts will show you they average 5-10, and I’m sure the comments on here will continue to grow.
So do I think Jim’s story will make it a top trending story on twitter? No, probably not. Will it make him receive a lot of attention in terms of the BAD community? Absolutely.
Good grief, none of us has the time to dream up “plots” like this. Jim marches to a different drummer. We’re not all on the same path.
Yeah!!! I’m excited you re staying. I always enjoy you perspective because it’s so different from my own and it always makes me think! I’m excited that we get to see your journey progress!
I don’t blame you, Jim. This is a dang tough crowd. I thought some of the comments yesterday were unnecessarily abrasive. I don’t understand why. I thought this was a place people came to help and be helped.
I have read this blog since the beginning. I do not comment often. Jim and his family are doing things outside the box. I feel the BAD community has/had a real problem with this situation. He stated in the beginning that he did not want to return to corporate america and he stated his reasons. However, time and time again commentors receommended this course of action. What everyone needs to realize is that there is not one way to live life and get out of debt. You may not feel the same way he does or would do things differently but you should RESPECT his decision. Let that part go and move on . . .
I have two children 20 and 17 the one thing I stress to them is THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK
if it is purely criticism and not constructive criticism do not bother saying it. No one wants to hear it . . .
I am glad you are staying Jim! You add spice to this blog! I am interested in your journey to be debt free.
If your now deleted post was not plagiarized then why delete it? Repost it and let the readers decide.
These comments are so interesting to me.
First and foremost if Jim got caught plagiarizing then let’s call a spade a spade.
Let’s not feel bad for him because he failed at basic blogging/writing etiquette.
Out of all of the bloggers that have contributed to this website I have liked Jim the least.
Another commenter mentioned whiny and I am inclined to agree.
Jim does not appear to live in a place called reality and has some severe maturity issues.
With all of the above he has commented retracting his resignation after talking with Jeffrey.
Shocker.
I highly doubt that Jeffrey would encourage Jim to quit due to the fact that this type of controversy will lead to more hits.
More hits equals more ad revenue.
Lovers and Haters of Jim be prepared to see more of his cry-babying as he hobbles along on his supposed plan to get out of debt.
Just a question here for you Mimi, where on this site do you see ads?
I definitely get ads that show up at the bottom as a banner/pop-up hybrid. I can click x to get rid of it. No biggie.
wow, jim you really should turn off your ad blocker for a minute and take a look at the site. i just did and there is no way i would be here without using the blocker.
I never even noticed… sorry guys
I agree with posters who have said Jim has been treated downright nasty at times. I understand people disagree with some of his decisions even I am skeptical at times, but it was nit picky and seemed no matter what he said people were just waiting to jump down his throat. I believe in constructive criticism and holding people accountable but there are actual people with real feelings on the receiving end – and I am saying that in defense of all of our bloggers here.
With that said, I also agree that yesterday’s post was clearly lifted. Jim may agree what the author of that piece wrote, but he could have just posted a link to the blog. Plagiarism is not acceptable and readers had every right to be upset about it.
Finally, I really did enjoy reading Jim’s story and I do want to see him and his family succeed, but people who threaten to leave then say they changed their minds in such a public way need to go. I am sorry how stressful this may be for Jim, but how much longer before he decides to threaten to walk away again? And I’m not saying that to be a jerk, just realistic.
I agree with scarr here. I enjoyed reading about Jim’s journey but if he is going to threaten to quit when the going gets tough then I think it should be now. Either you are in 100% or you are not. I do think some of the criticism has been over the top but quitting is not the answer in my opinion.
I think this is an amazing forum for people who are serious about getting out of debt, but the potential for being raked over the coals for being a little different than the crowd is incredible. I didn’t see all this coming and Jim probably didn’t either. I have a thick skin and I know I couldn’t do it — putting all your financial details and dreams and failings out there for the world to see and comment on and pick apart! It takes incredible bravery and transparency.
Before anyone jumps in to ask why I’m defending him, I can’t say I agree with everything Jim has said or done. The choices he’s making aren’t choices I would personally make. But isn’t the point of this blog to present a variety of perspectives?
Going back to my earliest days of chatting on the interwebs, I have a strong dislike for trolls. I’ll never understand what anyone gets out of posting nasty, inflammatory comments on blogs or message boards. I’m really sad to see it here. The people who have bared their financial souls may not deserve coddling or constant good-job!-ing, but they don’t deserve outright nastiness either.
Jim had what I would call a normal/human reaction to the hostility, regardless of what prompted the hostility in the first place. The origin of the hostility is a judgment call the site owner has to make. Jim is human and I don’t think that because he got bet, he should be ranked on for the rest of his journey if he chooses to stick around.
I don’t understand the comments about “trolls” and commenters being nasty…not just from this comment but others in the past. Jim himself, a few posts ago, admitted that the comments weren’t outright nasty. From everything I’ve seen (I will admit that I missed most of the comments on the plagiarized entry…the first ones I saw were fine), no one has come on here calling Jim stupid, and idiot, or anything of the sort. People are going to have strong opinions, but their comments have not been without reason or merit.
Joe,
I’m glad that you are sticking around. I’m rooting for you. But, I do have to admit that the thought has crossed my mind about whether you see the BAD community as a real resource for ideas that might help you change your decision-making in a positive way, or whether we are just one more way for you to get some more clicks for your other web endeavors and/or build up your own personal “brand”. The very first video you posted introducing yourself to the blog had a trailer ad for Younique and you were wearing a hat with the name of your too-be-launched website. Your subsequent posts/responses to readers has left me continuing to wonder.
Nevertheless, you have a different way of doing things and I’ve said many times that it is a good thing for this site. Don’t blame your readers for the skepticism though, they are just going by what you have told us!
Err, I meant “Jim,” of course. 🙂
THIS!
I think this is what people are responding to. It’s not a matter of trolls/flaming. I think BAD has mostly been a personal blog not say like some of the other bigger names that started out small and personal and then made it into a business. If the site has been a big money maker it hasn’t been obvious (to me) in the past. Andnow it feels almost like you are saying – his posts were trying to help his other endeavours. And i’m not even saying thats a bad thing – that how entrepreneurs think right? leveraging. But I just don’t think that approach meshed here.
It’s not a matter of “different”. Some things some of the other bloggers post have me raising eyebrows but then I tend to just glide over those.
Anyway, it’s all a learning process. The communication will either get better or people will just lose interest and ignore. I can’t speak for the last post bc I didn’t see all the comments but I have certainly not seen any trolling/flaming or even really insulting comments (go to cnn.com for examples).
Hey Joe…
You might be right on some accord. I just want to give note to some things. The trailer ad you are talking about, was in fact just my desktop wallpaper. It wasn’t trying to do anything, I left that there, so when the program started and ended it wouldn’t show the behind the scene stuff that I was trying to do. And the hat, well I really don’t know what to say to that. Elemental Unity has been around since I was 22. Before the website, before the company, Elemental Unity has been there. It is the tattoo that I dream of getting, it is a way a life for me. I wish I could explain it, but knowing me I wouldn’t be able to give it justice. It basically is how I see the world and how I see myself.
That video wasn’t trying to build up my personal brand. But I do have to admit that what I have been doing with it, was trying to get practice talking in front of a webcam and learning applications like ScreenFlow.
Now to comment on what you first brought up. I see this whole endeavor as a real resource. I have already implemented many things that have been brought up within this month.
Putting all else aside, the plagiarism needs to be addressed, preferably by Jeffery to the readers of the blog. I wasn’t reading the blog earlier when the whole thing went down, so I can’t compare the whole post to the one at Man vs Debt, but Anne’s comment above is damning. She compares sentences from the Man vs Debt post to the one by Jim earlier today, and the quotes are so shockingly the same that there is NO way that it is some kind of magical coincidence.
The Man vs Debt article was posted in 2009…the one on this blog was posted this week…it’s easy to see who’s copying who.
This was plagiarism, and it is NOT okay. And it needs to be publicly addressed.
I think we should all try to be nicer to each other, and maybe if someone doesn’t have anything nice to say they shouldn’t say anything at all. The internet can be a nasty place. Hang in there Jim 🙂
Jim-
I am glad to hear you are staying. I hope this experience can be a learning one for you. As a Language Arts teacher, I have seen my fair share of attempted plagiarism and I have to say that the “it’s just a coincidence that my article sounds exactly that other one” excuse doesn’t pass the smell test. The English language is too rich, vast and varied for there to be so many exact phrases or slight variations on phrases in two completely separate articles. No reasonable person could accept that this is coincidence.
I hope you will own up to that. I think you would get the respect of many readers for doing the right thing and accepting the consequences of that choice.
Beyond that, I wish you the best of luck with your debt and your writing. Remember, it doesn’t matter if you’re not perfect. Just be better today than you were yesterday.
I have to agree with the person who said that the plagiarism needs to be addressed by the blog owner.
A commenter above posted pretty damning evidence that cannot be ignored.Plagiarism is theft, and is always unacceptable.
Jim,
Own up to it. I just went over to check out the man vs debt post…you copied it. I have not been a huge fan of yours, but continued to read for the different perspective that you provide. Stealing someone else’s work, however, is low and should not be tolerated. If I were in Jeffrey’s position you would not have needed to ask to be removed from the blog, it would have already happened. Good luck in life and I will choose not to read your posts from this point on. Please try to take a good hard look at your ethical and moral compass before you continue blogging on any platform.
If I were blogging here I’d read two random comments per post and if they were useful (not necessarily positive, but useful) I’d read two more, then when two in a row were just people who are frustrated about their own lives and want to take someone else down a peg by being hyper critical, I’d stop reading and start working on my next post.
Bloggers almost need a receptionist. Maybe someone in blogging land can write an automated receptionist for blog comments.
When you look at the things readers are holding Jim accountable for, there are many:
1. His poor writing skills.
2. His multiple off-topic postings, such as the best-selling finance books on Amazon, some of which he indicated he hadn’t even read, or multiple photos of his son.
3. His dedication, or lack thereof, to paying down his debt, by his job situation and by spending money throwing an expensive (at his salary) birthday party for a two-year-old.
4. His making the same mistakes again and again, such as not reading the furniture contract clearly enough to avoid paying interest and penalties, and then not reading the layaway agreement enough to realize his coupon would expire before he paid it off (and then forgetting another coupon when he picked up the toy).
5. His using posts at Blogging Away Debt that were written two years ago for his own blog site, and neither updating them nor indicating we were getting previously posted material. His “yard sale” post was practically word-for-word what he wrote on his Frugal Penny Pincher site two years ago.
6. His plagiarism. This also makes me wonder about the pictures he uses on his site that are not personal photos. In particular, there is one of an old man and a young boy sitting side by side, with the boy reading a newspaper and the old man using a laptop. Is this photo in the public domain? The reason I question this is because I saw the same photo months ago on another site, and on that site it bore the name of the person writing on the site. The photo actually had to do with what was written as well, unlike Jim’s use of it. If these photos are NOT in the public domain, he is committing copyright infringement.
7. His resigning and then changing his mind.
Are people tough on Jim? Yes. Are they tough on the other three bloggers? Yes. That’s the point of this site: to hold these people accountable for their financial decisions. Each came on this site as a volunteer, knowing the rules, and Jeffrey was very clear setting out the expectations, before anyone even applied, that if they didn’t have a thick skin, this wasn’t the forum for them. Jim is the only one of the four who has been whiny about people being critical of some of his decisions and of his writing.
Perhaps this isn’t the forum for him?
I don’t think the point of this site is to be “tough” on other people. That’s just an excuse to fire away behind a computer. The point of this blog is to offer constructive, objective and helpful tips for people getting out of debt. Otherwise, we just have “Lord of the Flies”—the so-called strong (or so they think) picking on the vulnerable.
Perhaps “holding bloggers accountable” would have been a better choice than “being tough on [the bloggers]”?
They are sharing their debt stories with us, and yes, holding them accountable for what they do about their debt, and for what they write, is part of this. Jeffrey made it very clear about this in the beginning, when he was searching for new bloggers:
“It’s also important to realize that you will have to have a very thick skin as the readers here, while supportive for the most part, will certainly not let you get away with much if they feel that you’re not sharing or committing to paying off your debt.”
He also said that it was “essential that you’re a competent writer.”
If Jim wants to lead a different kind of job lifestyle, that’s his business, but yes, he’s going to find not everyone is in agreement with that. If he makes the same mistakes again and again, yes, people will bring that up. If he writes poorly, writes off-topic, “borrows” either from his own past already-published-online writings or even worse, uses someone else’s, people will and should object.
I don’t read this site for strictly entertainment value, I read to learn how other people deal with their debt and perhaps pick up a few ideas for dealing with my own. So far, all I’ve learned from Jim is what not to do.
Howdy gang, I rarely if ever comment on articles these days – but I thought this may be a good one to comment on.
I was only recently notified of all this mini-drama going on by Jeffrey. I have just a few thoughts.
First, I’ve been writing in this space for a decent while now. I know, for a fact, that every popular blogger of finance write gets “inspiration” from each other. It happened all the time when I was actively writing and growing the blog.
What we would do back then – was email each other. I’d say “Hey, I’m wanting to steal the structure you used for this post but change it to my opinions. You cool with that?” I’ve gotten many, many requests like that and sent my own several times.
I’ve also been around long enough to know that from what I’ve seen, there is little doubt that my super old post helped guide this one (maybe a little too much in most’s opinion).
Here’s what I ask to be done:
Everyone calm down a little bit. Put down the pitchforks on both sides.
I don’t know Jim, we’ve never met (I don’t think). But let’s not get too crazy with criticism here.
I’ve done the exact same thing early in my writing – I copied an email in Ramit’s email series he was using to sell a course. I wanted to base my own final email for my new course off his because I respected it so much. I changed major parts, but left some parts in that were too close to Ramit’s original.
Ramit saw it and reached out to me. We handled it privately, he said he understood and just asked to not copy it so directly in a couple parts. I owned up, apologized, and redid the email completely.
The point is – good people make mistakes. I’ve made this exact mistake.
Writing is hard. Writing online about your personal life is even harder.
While I think it’s highly probable parts were copied, I give Jim the benefit of the doubt as a person. I hope he bounces back and keeps up his PF journey and wish him all the best in doing so.
Let’s all agree to move on! 🙂
xoxoxox
-Baker
I think readers can understand when someone makes a mistake, owns up to it, and apologizes. From what it sounds like, that is exactly what you did when you copied another writer’s work; that, however, is not what is occurring here (and I suspect is what is making readers so upset).
Despite many readers asking for Jim to admit his fault and plagiarism, he states, “I never read that post over at Man vs Debt. I was shocked that it sounded so similar down to the same talking points. As it did sound too a like, I decided to delete it.”
It’s extremely difficult to respect someone who lies, and then when is caught, will not admit their mistakes.
Adam – thank you for your input here, but I’m a little shocked at your reaction. There was no ‘inspiration’ used from your article, the ‘structure’ wasn’t copied, it was just flat out stolen. But that’s neither here nor there; Alexis said it perfectly – I think it was the straight out denial and lying from Jim that has readers so upset. He has been difficult to connect with from the beginning for some reason and this didn’t help. I don’t want Jim to leave as a blogger, I actually find the mix of people very interesting – but please no more lists or how-to’s
Thanks very much for your input. As an elementary school teacher, we joke a lot about how there is nothing original in what we do. Every idea seems to be shared, given by another teacher or something enhanced from a book. I see the exact same thing in finance blogs. I mean, how many times can we actually reinvent the wheel?
Baker, thank you for your comments. Your example shows how classy you are! When you made a similar mistake you owned up to it and corrected the problem. I think what has many so upset with this situation with Jim isn’t the plagiarism per se, but the denial after the fact even though there were many parts that used the exact same (unique) wording and structure. It is hard to respect someone who can’t own up to their mistakes.
I’m also very disappointed in Jeffrey’s silence on this issue. I would have liked to see an official statement condoning plagiarism. His silence tells me this blog is nothing but a cash cow for him, where he has little regard for the feelings of his readers. I suspect the added drama and extra page views this drama has caused will be good for business. Ah well, such is life on the net!
Incidentally, Baker, I miss reading about your many adventures on Man Vs. Debt!
a truly classy response. compassion, not kicking someone while they’re down. props to you, Mr. Baker.
re: Adam Baker’s comment above,
that’s got to be one of the classiest comments I’ve seen on a blog thread, ever. Major props, guy, and thanks for the very cogent input.
The plagiarism seems quite blatant. I’m just new here, finding it from a reference in another blog. I don’t know if I’ll stick around, if that’s the caliber you have going here.
I am appalled at the support Jim has received in his plagiarism.
For Jeffrey to seek Adam out to condone/defend it is beyond tacky.
Obviously, blogs are not the real world because in the real world plagiarism has consequences and nobody thinks it’s ok.
If Jim had copied someone’s five year old paper and turned it into a University Professor he would be called to task and expelled from the school.
If Jim had copied someone’s five year old article and turned it into a Newspaper Editor he would be called to task and fired from the paper on top of the paper having to print a retraction.
I’m hoping that Jeffrey does the right thing by releasing Jim from his blogging position.
In addition to apologizing to the BAD readers by posting about how plagiarism is not tolerated on BAD.
Jeffrey’s silence in all of this has been the most disturbing of all. Crisis calls for leadership, and I don’t see that here.
someone copying a blog post on the internet hardly qualifies for the “crisis” and “leadership” level of drama. yes, plagiarism matters, but this is not a crisis. deep breath, reader.