by Jim
It seems as I dug myself a little hole last month that wasn’t that noticeable till about a week ago. I was making ends but when I got hit with the bank fees, I didn’t think it would hurt me too much. That was until I got hit with the car maintenance charges. For some reason, because of these two expenses (one could have been avoidable) I am running really low on money this month.
I know that there is still income that hasn’t been dispersed yet this month. But I usually have enough money to pay all the personal expenses I have and then add on the additional debt payments near the end of the month. This just doesn’t add up this month, and I believe I will be short when my last debt payment of the month is due.
I am at a loss of what exactly to do. I do get more money a few days later, I could easily tap money I have set aside to pay this and immediately pay that fund back. Then there is the Find Money Escapade, where I go around and collect all the change and money I have laying around the house, which usually equates in about $60-$90. I haven’t done that in a few months. Paying late is out of the question as I don’t want to get stuck with a late payment, so anyone have any suggestions other than what I stated?
You can “find” $60 – $90 “laying around the house”?? Then you say you can tap money you have set aside for this? You either have it set aside for this or it’s really for something else and you’re robbing Peter to pay Paul, with the caveat that you will pay Peter back. Jim, this doesn’t sound very much like you’re paying the kind of attention to your money that Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman recommend when you’re on a debt repayment journey. I suggest that you might want to seriously write down every penny you spend for a month or two and see where your money is really going.
I already do this Connie, this found money is usually the change we have that we put in a jar.
Can you provide a little more info? How short are you going to be? When are the bills due and when is the next “income to be disbursed” coming in? When you refer to “money set aside” is that an emergency fund? If so, I would borrow from that to bridge you but then you will have to figure out how to replace the funds.
I am going to be short around $80. The bill is due on Friday, and I will see my next source of income around Tuesday. It is the emergency fund I am talking about and I should be able to pay it back the next time I am paid.
I think you should pick up a part-time job, anything. That’s what we did to help bring in some extra money. Only a few hours a day, a few days a week. It’s only temporary, but could help reduce your debt much faster, and avoid a money shortage. Or you could do some serious spring cleaning and sell off stuff. I’ve had luck with a local FB sales page, selling furniture, baby items the kid has outgrown, etc. There are always ways to make money, you just have to be willing to do them.
From his previous posts I gather Jim is opposed to working for anyone period, not matter how temporary. I am admittedly drawing conclusions with little knowledge of the situation (just his random posts as substance), but I am willing to bet Jim bucks any authority but his own (meaning he simply cannot rationalize working for anyone period based on his own distorted perception of what is fair and right). I am a bankruptcy attorney and don’t ever try to force anyone into bankruptcy, but I have seen the patterns. I want Jim to succeed, but something has to give somewhere and there is a high probability this is where this is headed if he can’t get real with his need for more income-steady, real income.
Exactly Mitz! Jim bucks any perceived authority, and has a very distorted view of what it means to be fair and right.
Common sense tells us that if you are short money you should A) plan better, B) get a gripe on your finances (not some idealistic scenario that doesn’t actually exist) C) get a J-O-B and finally D) stop spending on things like fast food and cigarettes if you can’t manage to pay a basic bill. I don’t have the numbers off the top of my head, but I think he spent at least $50 on smoking last month…that would nearly cover his $80 deficit.
I am not sure why Jim keeps posting this stuff. Many people have suggested he get a full time job and instead he wants to stay home with his kids. Until he wants to change, there really isn’t anything anyone can help him with…he is just wasting everyone’s time. My suggestion is to go out a get a full time job where you work 40 or more hours a week. That should help get a person out of debt.
I respect people who work hard to get out of debt. I don’t have much respect for people who have kids, are in debt and don’t want to work. Jim’s posts fall into two categories: 1) here’s a link to something where I can make some money or 2) woe is me…he can’t pay his bills and doesn’t want to work.
I have picked up an extra contract that lasts till Labor Day, it is 8 hours a week, I should start seeing the source of that income at the very end of the month. I was thinking about also selling stuff, just have to figure out what we have.
There you go! 8 Hours is better than nothing. 🙂 Just keep trying to up the workload. And I’m sure you can find plenty of items to sell off. You really need to figure out the wants vs needs. Plus, the less ‘stuff’ you have, the nicer the house stays!
I am trying to up it always. Unlike what most people think I don’t have any disregards for authority or opposition to working. When certain perimeters are met, I seize it.
And unlike what other people think, they don’t know the county I live in. I am not opposed to getting a “40 hour job” if so needed, but the fact of the matter is that I make more from what I do now, then what I used to get in so said “40 hour job”
Mary, I never said I couldn’t pay my bills, I just said with somethings that happened I was short, the bill has been taken care of.
That’s a lot of money to be laying around. Maybe you could do temp work?
Definitely hunt down any money you can find around the house and if you have to tap into the extra funds, then do so. Paying everything on time is critical and the squeeze in months like these should motivate you to get rid of the extra payments and the cash flow nightmares they cause.
Thank you Walnut. What I did was take from my grocery fund and will replace these funds when I receive money beginning of next month.
I know you live in a rural area, but look up the “gigs” section on craigslist. Someone may need use of your giant truck to haul or deliver something. Most of it is physical labor. Usually filled with one time acts for pretty low pay but could be good for this situation.
I don’t have a giant truck Angie. But that is a great idea about gigs. Thank you.
I second the Craigslist thing. I found both of my part-time jobs on there, and they’re working out great. As for your dilemma, I recently experienced something very similar. Life happens. I ended up raiding my debit savings to replenish my main checking because an extra savings deposit had gone in. Essentially, my money just made a big circle, but the shuffling was a nuisance. Someone suggested I build in a buffer to my main checking account which I plan to do. It may help you to keep an extra $100 in there that’s just completely separate from your budget for cases like this. For the immediate, I’d do what Walnut suggested.
Thanks Jasmine!
Sounds like you have a couple of options for covering the shortfall but some things to consider. (1) you say you have money “set aside” you can tap. What is it set aside for? Emergency fund? Car repairs? Something else? (2) If you can pick up 60-90 in cash lying around your house every few months you need to keep better control of your cash. A coin jar to start at least.
But this all just points to a bigger issue. No matter what method – or mix of methods – you follow to get out of debt and stay out of debt – you need to have an true understanding of what is coming and what is gong out, you have to stop robbing Peter to pay Paul, and you have to have savings – for real emergencies, for “life happens”, for car repairs, etc. Maybe its $1K to start. Or $500 or $3K depending on your income, its dependability and your outflow.
And it isn’t clear if you mix the income from the different business into one account and just keep track of personal vs business spending. If you do – this is going to cause you problems because it is likely allowing you to rob Peter and Paul to pay Mary. When the music stops it won’t be pretty.
I run a small business, have friends that have run small business and that used to run small businesses – you need to keep funds separate because it is too easy to cover running in the red on the business or personal side with funds from the other side – and it never ends well. Plus to be a successful entrepreneur (and I’ve been both – successful and unsuccessful) you need to have a steady stream of income that covers your basic expenses. You never know when a payment is late, misdirected, contract suddenly ends, you suddenly can’t do the work, etc, that the basics are covered. If your answer to that is “it will never happen…my clients/work/business model will never……” you are lying to yourself. I had a steadily growing business working primarily for government entities and side work with “small angel investors” investing in tech companies. Then 9/11 happened. Government contracts didn’t renew or sign. Small angel investors stopped investing. And it disappeared overnight. It was 9 months before I signed another contract and 3 more before I saw cash. I was able – just barely – to make it. You don’t have to plan for the level of catastrophe – but what about if income falls off 25% and stays off for 3 months?
Sorry if this seems harsh and I know you want to work for yourself – completely understand. But I don’t think you have figured out the balance between your “wants” and “needs” – and I’m not talking about stuff. In your desire to have it all now/do it all now/live the dream now – you appear to be setting yourself up to not succeed. Something to think about it.
Thanks for this post SAK, I do keep everything separate SAK. Here is how I work everything, I pay myself at the beginning of the month for the previous month. I put the same amount aside every month to pay insurance, taxes, and savings for the business. The remaining stays in my business account and I disperse money to my main account as needed. From what the CPA told me, this is allowed as long as the payments aren’t co-mingling with actual payments to things other than my bank account. Since no matter what all profits are taxed it doesn’t matter if I keep all my money in my business or take it all out.
Have you gone into the bank and explained the situation, and asked nicely for them to reduce the overdraft fees? My brother was a bank manager for several years, and they always waived the fee if there had been no other incidences in the last year. Dont phone, talk to the branch manager!
I second this! I’ve had good luck getting fee’s removed from our bank when I accidentally transferred something from the wrong account. Worth a shot.
Someone gave this tip last week, and I do hope to take it up, but everytime I go in I never see the branch manager. Next time I stop in I will ask for his schedule.
I used to waive these fees for people as a teller. Just be polite and explain that there was a death in the family that prevented you from transferring the money, resulting in the overdraft fees.
I’d call and ask who can make these decisions and when are they available. Don’t wait until you happen to be there.
Agreed. You should get in touch with the bank ASAP as a little time has already passed. If you wait until you happen to run into the branch manager, the sense of urgency is long gone. The sooner you ask, the sooner you can hopefully get some of it refunded to your account.
I definitely second the Temp agency job idea!
I had to do that when i was out of work this year and while it didn’t cover alot of bills, it did help out with putting food on table and keeping lights on.
Jim, I’ve been in your situation and still am in your situation. I’m definitely not a role model for debt elimination. I hope you can get out of it. In the meantime, i hope you can take intervals throughout the day and just breathe! That’s what i had to do (but of course, i’m more anxiety ridden than most people).
Thank you OC. I have been coping, and it is getting easier each passing day.
Hi Jim,
To me this just says you need to really keep a budget. Do you just budget month to month? or for the whole year? By that, I mean do you make a budget at the start of each month to allocate income expected for that month? If so, that is something that definitely leads to cash shortage.
I have an excel sheet that has my budget for the whole year. It has EVERYTHING possible laid out on it. savings is an expense, i have a line item for unexpected expenses..one for gifts…etc. It includes one time expenses too. Then I can see how actions in january might affect my ability to pay something in June because there is a big one time payment in May. It’s basically a cash flow model for the whole year.
I then have a 2nd tab where i record my actual expenses and then have a running total of the difference. That way, if for example my “unexpected expense” such as an overdraft fee or whatnot is higher than budgeted, i can right away look at what other expenses i NEED to be under in order to have enough money.
It sounds complicated writing it out but basically i think as much as possible, keep track of your daily expenses. And don’t just write it down – you have to see how it affects everything else.
To answer your current question, if indeed you can “find” $90 lying around, that seems to be the obvious answer to solve this shortage. How you have so much cash lying around is a problem in my mind though. That’s a debt snowflake right there!
Have you thought of taking a PT retail job? something that will let you work steady minimal shifts like say 10 hrs a week? the steady income might come in useful and then you’d still have time to spend with your daughter.
Hi debtor,
This does sound a little complicated, I am pretty new with budgeting and really don’t understand what it is that you are conveying.
To answer you question, I do only budget month to month. But I am pretty sure I could do yearly and split it up.
Usually once a year I empty my change jar, which comes to around $60. It used to much much higher when I was a server.
Hi Jim, I feel like your post was very vague. Most of the comments have been about the same thing, asking for more information. I am not sure if you do not have the specific amounts or you just don’t want to share them, but either answer is troubling. It is hard to offer suggestions without seeing the whole picture. Perhaps in your next post you could use concrete numbers? It makes it easier to understand the whole picture. Thanks.
Hey Jim! I think you could benefit from the YNAB (You Need a Budget) software. I believe you can get a free trial to test it out. I think this would really help you better understand where your money is going and show you in advance exactly where a shortage may be. Please at least check it out – I think it could help you be a bit more successful as you start your debt elimination journey. Good luck!
Thanks ECD, I will do just that.
WOW!!! Some of you guys are HARSH!!! What is the point of posting if what you say is not helpful at this moment? I have my finances in EXCELLENT shape and wouldn’t have made the same mistake as Jim (not having enough of a non-emergency buffer for moments like this and not planning more carefully), but it would NEVER occur to me to bash him and not be helpful. Please stop being “financially perfect” every time any of the bloggers make a mistake and spend your whole comment demeaning them for admitting mistakes. Isn’t that the ENTIRE POINT of this blog? If you weren’t interested in learning to avoid mistakes or seeing the mistakes of others that you can relate to, you wouldn’t be reading this blog, i.e. we’ve all been there in some way. PLEASE BE ENCOURAGING!!! Mistakes are learning experiences and it is a GIVEN that the bloggers have/are/will make financial mistakes that they need accountability for and advice from others or THEY WOULDN’T BE HERE. I understand not wanting to see someone repeatedly make the same mistake, but that is not the case here with Jim. I am AMAZED at Jim’s polite responses in the comments. It is a WONDER that any of the past and current bloggers have remained committed with all of the unkind and discouraging words so freely written here. Come on people!!!
My tips for Jim are the following:
Kudos on the extra 8 hours : )!
-Paying a bill on time is non-negotiable. Pay it in any of the ways you suggested so long as there is no associated fee. Replace said money ASAP if applicable.
-I suggest that you work the 8 hours and put the money in a non-emergency “grace” account just in case there is another accidental overage in the future. Act like it does not exist as you are earning it. It’s new and you won’t miss it if it immediately goes into savings. Try your best to assume the money isn’t there and not count on it, but errors do happen when you are learning a new way of life so it’s best to have a safety net.
-If you can get any other additional hours to save more please do. The more buffer and added savings the better. Christmas is coming up too and a lot of people mess up financially during that season. It would be best if you were planned a budget for this Christmas and saved a bit each month accordingly.
-Bank fees are ridiculous for any reason. Research banks in your area that do not have bank fees. There are several in my area that do not have fees or do not so long as you keep a balance of around $500-1000. I don’t know if Arvest is in your area, but they don’t have any fees or balance minimums on their most basic account so long as you do online statements (I prefer them anyway). I am also a freelance worker and I have a second separate account for just taxes and I only use it to write quarterly tax checks. For that account, if I go under a certain amount I get a fee (not an Arvest account). It happened 1 time and I talked to an assistant bank manager and he waived the fee. I can’t imagine he would do it a second time, but it made me realize I need to be more aware of the balance. You might be able to get fees waived one time. If needed, you could take the extra “8 hour” money and use that to meet the account’s minimum balance and use it as your new “zero”, i.e. that money is not there and cannot be used except for an occasional overage mistake. Be sure that you understand how the balance works to avoid fees. Mine has to do with the monthly average and not just current balance. Again, though, bank fees are ridiculous and completely avoidable.
-I would find the change, etc. around the house and put it in an envelope or savings account for future car maintenance and ideally you should add a bit each month because car maintenance is unavoidable and it’s best to prepare. Even $20-$30 a month will be a huge help the next time there is a maintenance issue or repair. Getting out of debt is hugely important and I understand focusing on debt repayment, but car maintenance (and medical expenses) should be treated as irregular bills and budgeted for a little each month.
Keep trying : )! Two steps forward and one step back is still PROGRESS :)!
After re-reading I see the fees are because of overdrafting. The account you use for purchases needs a buffer that you don’t think about. If it’s $500, then $500 is $0 for you and you act like the $500 isn’t there. It was a tough month for your family and I am sorry for that. I think if you asked in person the bank manager would be more likely to waive the fees, or at least some. Everything is negotiable so long as people are polite. I find it’s easier to stay on budget if my savings account isn’t linked to my checking account, but a buffer is super necessary. I know everyone has mentioned quitting smoking and I’m sure it’s easier said than done. If it were me, I would pull out $50 at the beginning of the month and think of something awesome you could do with that money. Maybe a family day out or 2 date nights, etc. I would then try to focus on that every time it was time to buy more cigarettes. Whatever is left over at the end of the month could be fun money for your family. At some point it might be better used in savings, etc. but for the next 1-3 months it could really help you to reduce or stop smoking.
Thanks again Lori,
I will try to implement this buffer starting next month. Do you think that is more important than debt payment?
As for the cigarette money, the thing is my wife and I have cut back on this dramatically. I was a half pack a day and she was a little higher. Now we go through a pack every three days. I think that is the best we can do at the moment. I really wish that we could quit, but I just don’t see that happening at the moment.
Amen to your opening comments, Lori. Every time Jim posts, people come out with their dukes up. Jim, is there any way that you could join a credit union for your banking? We love ours. There are no monthly fees, and you don’t need a minimum balance either. I don’t think your monthly income is all that bad, Jim. Hubby and I lived at the poverty level for years with four little kids while he moved from low-paying jobs by going to school on the GI bill and finally getting better paying jobs. Then I went to school and became a teacher. As others have mentioned, track every single penny within an inch of its life. Really be conscious of all spending.
Maybe it’s the fact that I am older and “old school,” but I look at some of the budgets here, and it just blows my mind about how people justify expenses. Two hundred dollars/month for phones, new furniture bills, outrageous car payments? (We once bought a car for $500 and drove it for 10 years. Of course, my handy husband replaced almost all parts eventually!) I guess what I am trying to say is that living on a reduced income because you have to or because you are paying off debt is TOUGH! You have to make sacrifices, do without, simplify your life. Your entire paradigm about money has to change, and I think this applies to all our BAD bloggers.
I agree with Lori as well. It’s becoming very uncomfortable to see all the wacka doodle bullying of Jim. He handles it admirably, but as a reader it’s disturbing.
Hi FF,
There is two credit unions around here, one I do belong to. But in my current state of finances, I don’t care for it. There is only one office, and one ATM. They don’t have a good online presence, and it is really hard to balance my business account, since they don’t service businesses.
I have been in constant contemplation about the GI Bill, I found out about 8 months ago, that the GI Bill expires after 10 years. I have really considered going back to school because of this. I was always under the impression I could pass it onto my children, well doesn’t seem likely.
I have been trying to change my thoughts about money. That is the reason we got rid of the cable and the cell phones until we paid off our debt.
Thanks for the great comment!
Thank you Lori,
I never considered the buffer amount, and I think it is a great idea. I might not have to repay the money back since I have been pretty good on grocery shopping as of late. During the last quarter of the year my income goes up and for the last two years I have been able to have an all cash Christmas.
I am afraid of having extra money, as I have a hard time separating the two.
Thanks for the great suggestions!
One last comment:
Staying home with your children IS IMPORTANT. It isn’t “not working”. It’s deciding to focus on family. Working 40 hours in an office isn’t the only way to earn a good income and more and more parents are working online from home. Having an office job adds childcare costs, cost of convenience foods and easier to cook groceries, gas, and wardrobe costs so it isn’t an apples to apples comparison. Plus, Jim is making great income per working hour. With that said, it is super important that families always have a financial plan B and a solid financial foundation, especially when kids are involved. Jim must believe this or he wouldn’t be here working toward that. To me, Jim’s expenses don’t seem very out of hand. A lower income is the main problem. Many people do well with much less so it’s not really a number issue. More than anything, it is important to try to have more money left over at the end of the month than you currently have budgeted. This might require more work or more cutting back. Either way, I would find a way to have at least $300-500 left over every month for savings and at least $500-$800 per month to add to debt repayment. I’m not sure you have discussed your wife’s disability payments (sorry if you have and I’ve missed it) but it’s possible that in the future she won’t have access to disability payments and it’s important to have a safety net if that were to happen abruptly. The more money the better for debt repayment. At $15-$25 an hour, this isn’t a ton of additional hours. Can you bartend in the evenings or on weekends when your children are sleeping? Could you make enough to be in the same hourly range? If not, can you find other work or can you reduce your expenses further? It seems like you need more of a buffer between money in and money out. Also, how did you spend so little on groceries this month? I would LOVE to spend under $200 a month.
This has to be my favorite comment I got here on BAD yet. So much value and great questions. I am trying to pick up more long term contracts with this price range and some are starting to pop up. I will be applying for them.
Right now, the first contract is for Fridays and Saturdays, which is big money days at the bar and restaurants, so maybe I can find something during the week.
As for the amount I spent on groceries, it is all due to using coupons.
Hi Jim – I think it might be helpful (and this applies to all the bloggers) to write up a post on what accounts they all manage.
I spent years trying to perfect my “system”. This checking account was for this, and that savings account was for that. Each month I had this complex stream of transfers and I was constantly tweaking to get everything just right.
Then I stopped. I consolidated. With one bank I now have a checking, savings, credit card, mortgage. All transfers between and payments to are instant. No fees, no waiting, nothing. Beyond that, I have a Roth IRA, 401k, and HSA. My employer dictates the location of two of the three investment accounts, so not much I can do there.
But life is so EASY now. I run my checking account fairly lean, but keep a buffer. 100% of my purchases go to the credit card and I pay it in full every month. The savings account holds my big pot o’ money. I keep an excel spreadsheet that tracks my cash flows in and out as well as my list of what I’m “splitting” the savings account into. This suffices my need to tinker. I constantly build scenarios in the spreadsheet or reallocate my savings. At the end of the day, when I scenario build, sleep on it, tinker, sleep on it and then finally finalize a plan, I make one set of transfers, payments, etc. It’s so much easier now.
Wow – just a comment on some of the comments: Mary, M and Mitz specifically – you 3 are really quite the ” dicks” aren’t you?
Let’s not start name calling.
Actually there is no name calling involved in the post I made- only a question which the 3 can address or not .
A question calling them a derogatory name. Name calling.
I do not take it as a derogatory name- simply being blunt and to the point . Given the tone, attitude and nature of their comments regarding Jim & his actions which were blunt and to the point- I am sure they can appreciate the “bluntness” of my question rather than pussyfooting around slapping their hands for their comments that were a direct blow at Jim( exactly as was pointed out as being harsh and bashing the fellow by other posters).
Also- I am done responding to you -my question was directed to the 3 I called out, not you.
Am I a dick? As in a slang term for the genitals of a male? No, I’m not. I do find it hilarious that you asked if we are dicks, rather than calling us dicks, then lament about “pussyfooting” around. If you are going to “call someone out” please, feel free to borrow my two round friends that hang out under me and actually do it.
Blunt and honest is how I am. You don’t need to like it. My comments were a response to another poster whom I felt had a quality assessment of Jim’s most recent plight. I don’t feel like I bashed him. BAD bloggers have opened themselves to feedback, in all forms. Not everything is sunshine and rainbows. I feel like he is making piss poor choices, and don’t mind saying so. Its a reflection of my thoughts on his choices, which he is certainly free to make. I would also say something if/when I felt he is making good choices. Its a two way street.
He made excuses for over a week as to why he hadn’t made proper contact with somebody at the bank with the authority to waive or reduce his overdraft fees. I can’t see how that falls in line with somebody who is committed to debt free living.
Thanks for question though, and please, try harder next time.
Thus as you requested in your repsonse M and exactly as the term is meant here in Alberta Canada( arrogant, belligerent and condescending)- you have answered the question-yes you are a dick.
One can be to the point without being ignorant and your “quality” assessment of Jim’s most recent plight was far from constructive or helpful.
It is this “quality assessment” and I use your term very very loosely since it was the bashing in a rude condescending manner of those who choose to bare their stories here on this blog, that I find objectionable. Just as Clare finally had enough of those with their so called” quality assessments” of her situations, I can see why these bloggers would call it quits on the whole experience. They are asking for constructive help and yes-contrary to what a dick believes it can be done in a forthright, constructive and non-belittling manner
Cool story bro. You’ll notice that I referred to another posters assessment as “quality” not my own. I’m not sure why your towns definition of “dick” is so important to you, but hey, different strokes for different…folks 😉
I don’t think you know what some of BIG WORDS you used mean, so I’ll excuse myself from this silly tit for tat.
Thanks M since I was done with you
( oh by the way- in the realm of not understanding big words-“Bro” refers to a male in case you didn’t know -as my handle clearly indicates I belong to the opposite of the two :))
Jim,
I do think a buffer is temporarily more important that debt repayment. I think you should create a buffer of at least $300 (all the extra money if possible) ASAP. Before having a buffer, it won’t really matter what you do with debt repayment because there will be errors and emergencies and it will set you back and be disheartening. Keeping moral and motivation up is key in debt repayment, and so is not taking steps backwards when at all possible. I would put all of the recent extra job into your account as your new “0” (out of sight, out of mind), go about spending as before (carefully), and then continue to focus intensely on debt repayment. That money is not there. Anytime you even think of using it, imagine an emergency where all of your income immediately stopped and your cupboards were bare. This money isn’t left over money. It has a very clear, real, tangible, and important purpose in the safety and physical/emotional health of your family. Save it first ASAP, then back to debt repayment.
About the GI bill, a college degree opens more doors and offers a lot of financial security. I think it’s a great opportunity that you should definitely act on, especially since it is free. i would look at the rules, etc. but even starting out with 1 class per semester is a good step. You might even take a business or online tools class or something else that you would like and would be useful right now. You can add more useful classes until you get close to a degree.
I actually have two degrees Lori, and was working on another till I found that it really didn’t have the intense curriculum that I thought it should have.