by Claire
Disclaimer: My husband IS aware of this post and, as you will see, participated in its drafting. Fasten your seatbelts–this one is a doozie!
I am trying to figure out the best way to convey a lot of information without overwhelming everyone with a lot of information. Let’s start with the upcoming changes that sort of got this discussion started. Steve has been paying private school tuition since 1996 when his eldest (OS= Older Son) started Montessori. That son will graduate from a catholic high school in a few days. The younger son (YS) is graduating from 8th grade and will be continuing on to the same private high school. We pay $800 per month for OS’s tuition and $500 per month for the YS. As of June 1, Steve is reaching the end of this marathon.
Simultaneously we have really been trying to nail down a more precise budget and see what we can do to pay off the credit card debt earlier than December 2014. (I do have good news to share on that front…but that must wait for another post). He spent a lot of time and energy today updating the spreadsheet and I am thankful. Let me preface this with the fact that all of the credit card debt is mine and Steve is only on the car loans. His 1996 BMW with 275,000 miles fell out from under him and due to his own income changes (went to salary after an entire career in sales–with very nice commission checks) he took out a car loan for the first time since 1999. Steve will admit that he may not have gone into debt but he also did not save money when those huge checks came in. Oh I must share (trying to be objective) that he got one last hefty commission check in September of 2010 ($24K or so) and spent a lot of it moving us out of one house into another and all the associated expenses. He also spent $2500 of that on the now dead BMW.
So where is the disagreement? As I have previously posted we currently each get $200 every Friday. Out of this $200 we split groceries (running about $50 per person, $100 total for the week), we pay for our gas (currently at $40 for him, $60 for me) and then any and all other expenses. Haircuts, kid school expenses, gifts, dog food, incidentals, mad money, and unknown other crap! The good news is we are hearing you (okay I am hearing you loud and clear…Steve…slow to hear but I think we have progress) and know that this $200 has GOT to be broken down. I really believe I can do groceries at $125 per week (I am turning into a maniac on planning and couponing) and then gas is $100 per week. Deducting this from our current $400 per week amount we have $175 total, $87.50 per week for “no explanation needed” spending….do what you will…mad money!
I think that is plenty if everything else is taken care of ESPECIALLY because this is supposed to be uncomfortable! Steve, on the other hand, wants an additional $100 per week in spending money so that he can create a “savings” to get things that he has put off b/c so much income was going to tuition. I disagree. My argument is that we have been on this plan for much too little time to be making that kind of increase. Again…back to my drunk analogy…just when it starts getting uncomfy and there’s access to booze…should you partake? NO.
Steve’s argument is that he also walked into this relationship as well with a $90,000 debt of sorts–because of his boys’ private school tuition. He has come to a major milestone of paying off a big chunk of his obligation so he thinks it is reasonable to be rewarded with $100 additional spending money per week. He began the race when OS was 2 years old and he has been running it for 16 years. He’s down to his last 15% of the debt and his payments have dropped 50%. He is going from $1300 per month to $800 a month effective August 2012 and he wants $400 of that $500 savings in his pocket to spend on what he has done without (clothing, shoes, gym membership, bicycle…etc). Side note: These are Steve’s words and he has approved this message.
I suggested taking a full month’s tuition ($1300) on June 1–which I don’t think is a good idea really but I figured it could be the reward for crossing the finish line for him–and doing what he will. He refuses. I suggested taking the $500 “raise” and putting it toward his mortgage on the pre-marriage house. He refuses. He wants more control over more spending money and my fear is no behavior modification is taking place. If our respective spending habits don’t change we are in for a world of hurt!
He wants me to share that he will have two extra paychecks this year totaling $4000 that will all be going toward debt reduction and that he is not sabotaging my efforts.
What do you think?
Born and raised in Texas. I’ve at least driven through every state in the US courtesy of a roadtrip loving Dad.
I’m single with two children and a good parenting relationship with their father.
I am a “life is just half full of funny” kinda gal. Humor is my saving grace and I am thankful for it every single day. I have a strong Catholic faith and am thankful for that foundation.
I read a lot for a living but still enjoy a good book. I love biographies but in recent years have found the need for fun fictional books–sadly, for a long time I just didn’t enjoy fiction!
I love live theatre of any kind–from local productions to Broadway.
I love to scrapbook and pride myself in my kids’ albums.
I love being a mom but also love my career. I’m blessed to have found a balance allowing me to be at everything my kids need and want me to be at–while also having a career.
Favorite Quotes: Well behaved women rarely make history.
Behold the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out. -James Bryant Conant
I think as much money as possible should go toward debt. Extra money should go in savings period. I know the wanting feeling- to give yourself a treat because you have sacrificed for something – in steve’s case tuition for his boys.
I hope you are able to reach an agreement but I will say that in my experiences with debt – I always promised myself any future or extra money I came across I would save or put toward my debt. . . Never happened until I got on a serious “pay off the debt” wagon. Once on track to paying off my debt, i had to watch all my overtime money and my large tax refunds go toward debt and it sucked because there times I just wanted spend the money.
I do not want to sound judgey, i understand Steve’s desire to treat himself and i love that you are both open to posting this very important and intimate financial detail – but (there is always a but teehee) as far as my thoughts – you both are in debt. Yiur debt is his and his is yours and you agree to support eachother – get the debt knocked out first. . . With that said I know you will both have to make a compromise in this situation and i hope you reach it peacefully 🙂 good luck!!
Thanks scarr….I am working on being less sensitive to comments. This is great perspective you provide. I am with you on the “getting serious” part and that was my point with Steve. Good news is–as I said before “the truth will set you free.” Once this post went public and Steve read it from the outside looking in…instead of the opposite…he realized how it sounded and immediately had some second thoughts. Saying this stuff out loud when you know others are going to read it is absolutely part of this process!
I also communicated that his desire to reward himself is still very singular minded. He didn’t suggest that we both increase our spending by $50 for example. That hit home when he was able to hear it. This is a huge struggle for us–seeing things from a team perspective and no individually. That is our nature but it was only further complicated by our first marriages. In those relationships it ended up being every man/woman for himself/herself because of the unhealthy nature. We have GOT to shed those habits or we will not make it out of this hole.
On a brighter note–with the help of mint.com we put together a plan that really might see us out of the credit card debt part of things (approx. $55K) by December 2013. That’s HUGE! Steve kept hitting the point that even with his increase in spending money we would still hit that and my response was…then why don’t we put that extra $400 per month (FOUR HUNDRED PER MONTH ON TOP OF THE $800 WE ALREADY GET IS ABSURD! OBSCENE! RIDICULOUS! LUDICROUS!) and get out a few months earlier?!?!
By the way, we both chuckled with your “hope you reach it peacefully” comment. Are you spying on us? LOL. It stayed peaceful for the most part but man can we fight! We are getting much better at that part of things too…but honestly sometimes I think we could be a great blended family reality show.
I hope whatever I say when I comment doesn’t make you feel bad because it is never my intent – I try to be as encouraging as possible. And I understood what this post was about – posting something that wasn’t a DEFINITE it was just a thought – and no one deserves to be chewed out for having thoughts. You two literally slept on it and already are working together to come up with a better solution and I think that is just as important as getting out of debt.
I value your thoughtful input! I find your posts very encouraging and I look forward to reading them.
Does Steve think just because his son is 18 and is graduating he will no longer have to help him financially? Because this is not true. This is still his son. How will this young man go to college? I am not saying you have to pay this, but I am saying that he will need medical care, car insurance, a cell phone, books, food. If this child has been privately educated with the privileged dropping him off the face of the earth just because he is 18 is wrong. It will lead to many problems down the road. I suggest that Steve take $100 a week and put it into a help my son get a start on life fund. Trust me we have never paid our kids tuition in full but they have certainly needed our help.
Steve has left for the office so I want to put a disclaimer here that this is all me talking. This is purely my take on things and I’m taking a risk by sharing this. He’s starting to open up to the idea of being directly involved with the blog but we aren’t there yet. I hope one day you see a post directly from him!
OS’s Senior Year has not been good. At the end of his Junior year he made some very poor choices. Consequences were imposed and a clear warning issued on what would occur if it happened again. Well, it happened again and the consequences were severe. My husband feels strongly that OS rejected the help we willingly offered and did so in a very dramatic way. OS made some progress but now seems to be stuck in the blame game taking no responsibility for his role in the mess. This is only fueled by his mom and grandmother.
As of now, OS might be going to a local university or possibly a local community college. There is a lot of heartache about this b/c Steve knows there was so much potential lost. His solution is that OS needs a taste of reality–having thumbed his nose at our home and rules. This was more than the usual teenage rebellion but perhaps not as catastrophic as we perceives it to be…there’s a middle of the road take in there somewhere but we can’t seem to move off our respective extremes. There is a stalemate between the OS and Dad and right now with no apology or remorse from OS, Dad is not paying a penny more. OS does not have a job and has moved out to finish the school year. Steve had to hustle to make it having a young family when he finished his degree. He needs to see more investment from OS if he is going to help financially…period.
My hope is that OS will quickly find his rock bottom and realize he cannot do this without our help and that our help has reasonable expectations tied to it. I pray about this daily. The very tough part is there is a group of people who continue to shelter OS and make his landings soft thereby making Steve the bad guy…always.
I hope that clarifies some things.
I did not mean to be critical, but as a foster parent I have seen so many really smart kids (especially young men dumped into the system without support.) It is hard to have a teenager who knows it all and it making poor choices. I have one myself! Good luck. Don’t forget to pray:)
Claire, I was going to post something but want to hear your response to Kim first. What is happening to OS after graduation?
What about a compromise of sorts? Half of the “extra” money goes towards debt..perhaps even one hubby feels stronger about (such as his car) and the other half goes to hubby for extras? Not ideal but still making progress… And no matter what you.guys HAVE made MAJOR progress just by having this discussion!!! 🙂
Thanks Joanna—excellent point that we are talking about really tough stuff and getting through it…maybe not getting through it beautifully but we are getting through it! I suggested what you suggest here as well….paying toward his car…and no that was not acceptable. He wants that money in his pocket. BUT as I said in another comment putting this out for the world to see has already been a huge help (and we haven’t even drawn a lot of comments). As we fell asleep last night and he thought about what he was asking for he began to express the errors of the thought process. Slow but sure progress. AND we got through this peacefully…I’ll take that at this point!
My gut reaction is: absolutely, positively no way. It’s a debt snowball. One obligation is paid off, you accelerate the payments on the next debt. Period. (Have him call in to Dave Ramsey’s show to get the expert opinion!) No one received a massive raise, you all didn’t move to somewhere with a higher cost of living (either might justify an increase for BOTH of you). Rewarding him for his child graduating from high school is just not a reason to jump off the debt payoff band wagon. If he’s done without for 16 years, he can make it 2 more. And just think if he makes it those two more, NO kids in private school, no credit card debt…pay everything off and then EVERYONE celebrates!
In my opinion you have to find that sweet spot where everyone is happy paying off debt. I say meet him half way, extra cash for debt and extra cash for him. Both sides win.
Yes Jill! I advocated this position almost verbatim! How sweet will it be to pay the debt down that much faster?! His response was that even with an increase in spending we can get rid of the CC’s in 18 months. My point is then why wouldn’t we take the extra $400 per month and shave off even more time?!
Holy intense conversation batman. Instead of just giving an extra $100/week for things your husband has put off purchasing, you just take a leap and make some of those purchases together? Clothes shopping can be done by hunting down sales and deals. A bike purchase may happen in the winter after the new year models come in and the previous year models are on sale. Maybe your husband can search Craigslist for hobby type equipment?
It is completely understandable that he has forgone a lot of things just to stay above water. I fear that the extra weekly money will end up getting blown on things your husband doesn’t care about instead of pinpointing those things he genuinely needs (like new clothes).
Why not make a list of his needs/wants and make it a mission to get the best possible deal on them? You can even line these splurges up with debt payoff milestones.
This opening line made me laugh all day Walnut so thanks for that. I really like some of the tips you have here. Let’s see what Steve thinks. He should be reading the comments tonight. 🙂
You sure did jump all in this time! LOL
I admire your willingness (and Steve’s) to put all this out there for criticism and advice. My first thought was that the criticism will surely outweigh the genuine advice. I hope I’m wrong. There just seems to be so many negative people out there the last month or so.
Anyway, the brightest part of this post is seeing that you and your husband are taking the time to sit down and discuss these things. You feel comfortable enough with each other to ask for the things you want and to explain why. That’s huge.
Alice,
I almost couldn’t believe I hit “publish” but I am so glad I did. Like you, I was really bracing for the absolute worst. I did notice that everyone was very thoughtful this go ’round…and that is much appreciated. There is some great stuff in these comments! It is difficult to convey that we ARE beating ourselves up for the debt but we still have major behavior modification to get through…both of us.
I grew up in public school, after the first few years of private school. I have to say I got more out of public school. But I wont condemn you on private school, that is a choice for each family to make. I do have a problem when you said that the credit card debt is yours and the car loan is his. I was under the assumption that you two were married. If that is true it’s both of yours. I’m pretty sure you meant just who brought it into the marriage, but that bugs me when I hear that.
Yes Jeff–that is an entirely different–lengthy–conversation! Steve and I both did a split on private and public when we were growing up. Until this school year our children had always been in private school but my two were moved to public this year. That was partially financial but also because we were not getting what we pay for. I also agree with some other posts that say we simply cannot afford private school.
I agree with what other people said about splitting the amount. If he is insisting, give him half for him, half for debt. Maybe go to a payment calculator online and show him how much interest you’d save by paying it off earlier. That might coerce him into being more receptive.
Frankly I understand his thinking that his obligation to his older son’s school is over so he should have some more discretionary cash, but it is not HIS money. It’s YOUR money collectively. In a marriage you don’t just get to turn around and say “No, I want this to myself”. You collectively have $95000 in debt. That comes with sacrifice to get out from under it. The sooner you’re paid off, the sooner you can do the things you want to do without biting your nails every time something comes up and you spend a bit more than you wanted to.
I really had moved off of “his and mine” in my blog posts but this conversation reminded me that we have a long way to go! This is definitely a MAJOR issue for us that we are fully aware of and working to address. Our personalities are independent and then we only reinforced that with prior relationships.
First thoughts about the money: I can see his point, but delaying the debt payoff hurts BOTH of you, not just you. So it’s in HIS best interests to get rid of that debt! Having said that, if he really needs new clothes then perhaps the two of you can set up a clothing fund for him. I don’t know if he wears suits for work or not, but obviously those are more expensive than kahkis and polos for a business casual place, so you’d have to adjust the amount based on what kind of clothing he needs.
First thoughts about OS: One thing I’ve noticed from two different families where the fathers tried the Tough Love approach is that the fathers forgot the “love” part. I’m not saying your husband should continue to financially support OS, but I think it’s very important to communicate that he still loves his son, and that he is doing what he is doing so OS can learn to stand on his own. Easier said than done, I am sure, and maybe Steve is already doing this, which is great. I’m only saying this because of the two other situations I know about.
We need a “line item” in the budget for clothing! We do not have that so any clothing purchases need to be made out of that $200 per week. My thought on that was it would encourage us to set aside a portion of that $200 each week so that then we can have an amount to spend on clothing. Obviously that is not going to work so we need to carve out a separate amount for clothing.
As for tough love, my husband always impresses me with his ability to be stern but communicate that his boys are loved. These are tough times in the life of any teenager but I do hope that OS sees and accepts the love that is given from both of us.
You get out of it what you put into it. I don’t think an extra 100/week in blow money for him is a good idea, for what it’s worth my wife and I don’t even do 100/month in blow money.
I think the items he listed are odd though, clothes, shoes, and a gym membership? Why is he asking for these things, is there not enough money budgeted for clothes for him to buy what he needs?
Your money would be better spent increasing your clothing budget so he can buy clothes, and allocating money towards a gym membership.
Yep this is where we have work to do. Our budget is ill defined. It was a big step to define a dollar amount to begin with and now it is time to get very specific. I originally thought we could set aside $ out of that weekly $200 to save up for other purchases–like clothing…gym membership…but that is not a good, workable idea. We’ve agreed to set aside time this weekend to define the “line items” more clearly.
To give you some ideas my wife and I have budget categories for auto, food, laundry (quarters), clothing, household stuff, entertainment for me, her, and us.
Auto includes gas and repairs. Any repair money that isn’t used that month stays in the bank and just gets rolled over until it gets used. Food is anything at the grocery store plus eating out.
Remember it takes a while to figure out a budget. You won’t put enough money in one category but you’ll put too much into another. You won’t think of a category until it creeps up on you.
I’ve typed and deleted my reply 3 times. I’m seriously having trouble biting my tongue on this one! My initial reaction was along the lines of Whaaaat?
First of all, let me say you’re both incredibly brave to work through all of this with the rest of us making comments from the back seat. That can’t be easy and we all see the “right way” very differently.
I think were I have the problem with the request for funds to buy new clothes/shoes/bike is that it’s not “honey I’d like to see how we can find $1500 to get some things I need”, it’s “I need $400/month…” My automatic question is, for how long? A year? Forever? How much will the items in question actually cost? Have you made a list and priced it out? Does it all need to be purchased right now? Can you wait and receive any/all of these items for birthdays or Christmas? All fair questions.
I realize he’s personally at the end of a 16yr financial commitment, which is not insignificant. Maybe that does warrant a small one-time spend to make up for deferring acutal necessities. But an endless increase? Sorry. You’ve only been on this debt reduction journey for a very short time – surely a big congratulatory reward isn’t required already? Just my 2 cents worth.
Whatever compromise you reach will be the right one for you. Good luck!
PS. here’s a question to spark a discussion (like you need one). When you consolidated all those credit cards and reduced the monthly interest cost, did you ask that $400/mth of the savings become your personal funds and only put the excess savings toward the debt reduction? Since those cards represent debt you brought to the union, and you arranged to reduce the monthly commitment, doesn’t it seem reasonable that you alone should benefit? Hmmmm….
This is an awesome comment JMK! Thank you for deleting, retyping, deleting, retyping, deleting and retyping! It was worth it. Believe it or not, I did not think of the “for how long?” question but hello…..that should be the very first question! Really great stuff here that will give Steve and I much to discuss. Thank you!
My suggestion would be to put the bulk of the “extra” money into a savings account ($1000 to savings, $300 to debt repayment) for future purchases. I would not suggest that he put extra money in his pocket to spend willy-nilly. I would want to make sure that the extra money IS accounted for, one way or another. Budgetting is about making a plan to spend your money where you WANT to spend your money.
I recognize that you have a hefty debt to pay back, but you also can’t deny yourself entirely. There needs to be balance and if there isn’t, resentment will build and cause you both to tumble off the re-payment cart.
Once the money is in a special “savings” account, together you can decide where and when the money will be used. After a few special treat purchases, your hubby might be satisfied enough to divert a bigger portion of the money to debt repayment afterall.
I think you need to find the compromise that will make you both reasonably happy. It isn’t easy, but well worth the effort. And BTW, what I would decide to do might not be right for you and your family. There is no right or wrong decision.
I think each of us have this little devil on our shoulder that tells us we do not have to answer to ANYONE and that is a very bad thing! We also have an angel on the other shoulder that reminds us of how much we love one another, value each other, were brought together for a reason and all the good stuff that brought us together to begin with…and that is a very good thing! The great news is that 2.5 years of marriage the angel’s voice is definitely starting to get louder than the devil’s voice. 🙂
What I see here is you are both not on the same page, and I don’t mean the $400 extra bucks he wants. You are both thinking seperately again. His is his, yours is yours. So he’s paid off a lot of debt, yahoo! Guess what, YOU both still owe over $90,000 in debt so put on your big boy pants and throw that entire $500 at it! (Sorry if I’m a bit harsh here, but this is the MAIN PROBLEM in all money situations with married couples! They have ‘their stash’ and its theirs! Dang you would think we are all 7 years old again, hiding our Halloween candy from our mothers!)Moving beyond the ‘me’ attitude is what needs to happen.
On another note – your $200 each per week. So from what you have said you each get on average $90 per week after gas and food. That is $360 a month EACH. I don’t get what you are spending that on. I have 4 kids who like to pick my pockets too. We budget seperately all of our haircuts, dance expenses, clothing, etc and ALL of that is done at the cheapest possible rates (we cut our sons hair, 2nd hand clothes, garage sales, etc). Plus, my two older kids(and they are only 14 and 12) work at babysitting and at a local farm. We tell our kids ‘you have this much for clothes this summer’ and they have to work within that budget. If they want more, they work for it. Its called living on a budget, and wow I want to teach them all now and save them the grief of being in debt for years and years!
My husband and I get about $25 A MONTH in fun money to spend how we wish. I agree with everyone else – you’ve got to break all those expenses down that your $360 is going to. That is simply too much discretionary money a month.
If you took $100 a week ($50 each)of that descretionary plus the $500 per month of no longer paying tuition, that is $900 a month on average – that is $11,800 MORE PER YEAR you can throw at debt!
Saying all that, I’m sure your husband will not go for it. So, as much as I hate to say this, let him have his $100 bucks a week, but I would ask him to make a list of what he thinks he needs it for. I am betting his already $360 a month would cover those wants. I’d also try and cut a deal for him to only have that extra $100 a week for the amount of time it would take to buy the things on his list. Once the list is done, so is his extra $100. You and he need a plan for that $100 bucks. Once the plan is reached, it goes to debt. This ‘free’ money is what starts the ‘gimmies’ and ‘I want it now’ attitude. That leads to a grown-up fit, where to resolve our own wants we go into debt to ‘get it now!!!’ Its a cycle, and having loose money out there with no plan is like asking to remain in debt.
After all of that, I will say you are making great progress. I nearly spit my coffee out when I read you were spending $2,400 a year on your hair. I can’t imagine doing that, but yahoo for you for taking a stand and choosing not to live that way anymore!!
agreed, the $2400 savings on hair is HUGE. great progress there!
There is so much I love in this comment! We haven’t yet discussed our final decision but we are each reading all of the comments. Thank you for continuing to read even when I almost made you spit out your coffee with that hair care budget! Crazy! I know! To add to the irony I got two random compliments on my hair TODAY! Now if that isn’t God trying to send me a message I don’t know what is! 😉
I knew women generally spent way more than I do on their hair but I truly had no idea. I wear mine short and spike/style it with some gel. The less I have to think about it the better I like it. I have a handfull of greys but at 47 I figure I’ve earned them. I’ve never colored my hair and I can’t imagine starting now. I get it cut every 2 months ($18 incl tip). My husband and son are on the same schedule and my daughter gets several inches cut off her long hair every June and December. So for four of us that’s 20 haircuts a year at $18 or $360 for all of us. That still sounds like too much when I say it like that!
Thank you for being so honest – and Steve too!
I think you two need to have a discussion, but not about MONEY! Sounds crazy right? Hear me out…
Why not and sit down and DREAM together…. talk about your life goals and dreams. What do you want to do together as a married couple – travel? retire early? volunteer? etc…what will your life look like in 5 years? 10 years? when the kids are all off to college?
Once you have something you are working towards together, it’s easier to realize that debt is holding you back from those dreams. Once you have goals it’s easier to make sacrifices. While being debt free is an awesome goal, there has to be something beyond that you are working towards….
Good luck!
Well said Den! Well said!
sheesh. like others here, i’m trying to carefully think through my reply before posting…it’s cool because i know you actually read every single comment and consider what people have to say. the comments section is actually a positive addition to your blog rather than the toilet bowl of the page like it is on most websites, because of the engaging dialogue you have with your readers.
Anyway, I agree with others that $400 extra per month is ludicrous. How about $20/week instead of $100.
I can attest that at least for men, the concept of working and earning money and treating yourself with what you earn runs deep. So it’s hard to just cut this off completely. Maybe some compromise is in order.
But I also understand the perspective that would say, “how about Steve starts acting like a HUSBAND who is MARRIED and use HIS money to help YOU with YOUR collective debt.” In San Antonio, you won’t have to go too far to find some true Southern Baptists who won’t hesitate to tell him to MAN UP. So that’s another perspective 🙂
But yes, the real question here for me is why it’s so….separate. It sounds like you two are working closely together moreso than before but this idea of what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is yours is foreign to me.
So here’s what we’d do in our house. Choose a reasonably priced treat you’ve been waiting for and buy it and enjoy it and savor it. But stay away from additional monthly commitments, and after you get that treat, put the recurring income toward your other obligations.
I like the previous idea of listing out the “wants” you’re denying yourself and seeing what the total cost is. If I bought everything I feel like I’m denying myself, I could maybe get through $400 for 2 or 3 months before I would run out of things to buy.
Also, as discussed before, my opinion, although maybe not yours (and obviously not his), is that your retirement plan is in shambles. Although I think you should both be extinguishing debts, the second choice would be to boost your retirement savings by $400/month. And your emergency fund, while you’ve made great progress, isn’t going to cover a very big emergency. But you could boost that quickly with $400/month.
There’s a million choices you could make. and it sounds like you are working through it together. And we’re crazy to think that some anonymous internet commenter is going to make the decision for you. But please PLEASE think about getting some objective advice from a live, in-person human like a financial planner, or a couple from your church whose finances are in order, or from a financial planning website or book…someone or some tool that can be OBJECTIVE. $140 spent on the Dave Ramsey DVD lessons would be a great choice.
There’s an old book from the 1990s called “The Millionaire Next Door.” I think a lot of guys enjoy this book about how other people have succeeded financially without any great windfall. Perhaps your husband might find it helpful.
We’ve got our 65+ retirement savings completed and now we’re working on eliminating the mortgage ASAP and socking away additional retiremetn funds so that we have the option to retire considerably before 65. For easy numbers we figure we’ll need $3k/mth to cover the time before 65 when assorted pensions and government benefits kick in. It’s an over simplified number, but I can’t tell you how closely you examine every nonessential purchase when you know every $100 diverted from savings is another day later that we get to retire. It really puts the impulse purchases into perspective. Frittering away 4 days days of early retirement ($400) every month? That would be hard to justify for me.
Adam! My Retirement Reminder! Thank you! I DO read every comment and tonight all of these are getting replies b/c I am so motivated by all of them. Steve and I do struggle with the team approach. I’ve posted some info in other responses that at least explains that reality to some extent. The reasons we are here should be irrelevant though and instead we have got to focus on things always being a “we.” Both of us get very anxious and uneasy with that idea—although it has gotten better in the 2.5 years we’ve been married. There is a long way to go and as you can see I slip right back into that place–feeling guilt for bringing all the debt…explaining what HE did wrong when he was single to make myself feel better…yea, all of that has got to stop. Thanks for the reminder. I’m sure I will need them many, many more times in the months ahead! Oh also, I made all the calls to get my random rollover IRA moved to USAA and now I want to set up a meeting with a USAA financial planner. I need to discuss that with Steve. It is both a scary and empowering thought to think about talking to a financial planner. Scary because it would make us very vulnerable…but empowering because for years I never ever thought I’d be able to do that.
OK here we go.
Again, Dont remember your exact ages. But $400/month invested at an 8% return for 25 years yields you $383,000 in 2012 dollars to retire on.
Ask Steve-o what he wants to buy so badly now that he’s willing to sacrifice the better part of half a million dollars for.
Okay I can’t write long replies right now due to time constraints but I HAD to hop on and post that this comment from you Adam and Walnut’s “Holy Intense Conversation Batman” have absolutely cracked me up. I am reading everything and will be replying tonight! Thanks all! Great stuff here… and peppered with humor always helps!
I am 40 and Steve is 41. I want you to have all the info.
Steve needs to grow up and be a man! You BOTH have car loans, you BOTH have credit card debt. Thats called marriage. Steve needs to stop throwing a little boy temper tantrum because he cant have the toys he wants, BOOHOO its time to man up and take care of your family and get them to a safe place (out of debt) you are not 7 years old, and you just cant have everything you want! Steve, please tell your wife and kids that they are more important to you than your toys and put them first.
Three thoughts that may or may not already been voiced:
#1 – Your #1 obstacle to getting debt free is likely this “mine/yours” mindset. It’s just going to be a constant uphill battle if you don’t work as a team. The first step may be not calling it “mine/his” – and I have the feeling a lot of this “mine/yours” talk stems from your spouse. The idea of a objective third party is VERY sound. I agree with the other statement that this isn’t even about the “money.” This is a huge red flag to me, when it comes to marriage in general.
#2 – Wait, so he paid off a HUGE luxury and money drain, and wants to reward himself by spending that money? I do not *get* this on any level. Seems to me that it is time to start cleaning up some of the mess this private school decision has left behind. (I know, I know – the “debt isn’t his” – but having no retirement or savings to speak of is a mess in itself. Plus, see #1 – it is HIS).
#3 – $400/month *blow money* sounds like the most terrible idea given just about any financial position (unless maybe your ducks are in a row and you make a REALLY significant income!). BAD idea. Increasing the clothing budget or getting a gym membership is a far more reasonable request than “Give me $400/month – I don’t want to explain it.” This is just the polar opposite of what you are striving for. You want to get more control over your money – you need to know where every penny is going if you want to get more efficient. This is just a step in the wrong direction. I know *you* see that, but if your husband wants to know what we think, tell him this is what we think!
Points taken Alexanfria! And was that a typo and meant to be Alexandria? Just curious–totally irrelevant! 😉 This will definitely be a comment that we keep handy as we tackle this journey so thank you! You’re right and I hope you read my other replies. We need to be a team–always.
Yes, that was a typo!
I wish there was a “like” button on this blog or a way to vote on comments, because Alexanfria hit it out of the park with her response. Every point is spot on.
I used to get bored with the previous writer of this blog, because she always made the right financial decision (yawn). Eventually, it felt like she was generating stories for the sake of generating stories. I sometimes forget that there exists a class of people, a large class maybe, that is inclined to blow an extra $400 dollars a month when they owe $95K in various loans and are “committed” to a debt reduction plan (and blog no less!). That is much more interesting. Thanks for breathing life into this blog.
$400 a month is absurd. And to be blunt, your family is in no position to pay for private school. As Alexanfria said, it is a huge luxury; one that you cannot afford. It may feel like you’re cash flowing the payments, but you’re not. Every luxury that you buy while in debt is financed.
I know this post sounds harsh, but I sympathize with you, Claire. I just get so frustrated when I hear people in bad financial situations rationalizing why they should spend extra money.
She’s explained in the past the private school is part of the divorce and custody agreement between her husband and his first wife. It’s not really a negotiable for them.
Hi Ender–
Maybe I am totally wrong but I am afraid there are more of my class of people–inclined to blow an extra $400 a month when they owe a ton of money than there are your class of people–and we want to be like you! 🙂 The exception I present is that I am one of the very, very few who is willing (and stupid enough?) to talk about it out loud! I firmly believe that is how we will become one of you!
I see that KLM just posted a comment re: private school tuition and that is correct. At this point, that is a non-negotiable. I didn’t receive your post as harsh at all! Thanks.
I am more concerned over the marriage aspect of this disagreement than I am over the money aspect. What is his is yours and what is yours is his. You BOTH have debt. You BOTH have children than deserve security.
Rewarding yourself for cutting out such a major payment is great….but it is a one time reward, not an every month increase. Personally, I am floored that you are already spending so much on blow money…to add to it seems ridiculous. If he NEEDS clothes then the clothing budget should fulfill that need. Adding the cost of a gym membership to the budget, if it is a small cost, would also not be out of line. Consider it an investment in health. Just blow $400 every month on who knows what? no way!
Much work to do on defining our budget items!
Someone mentioned that it is $400 “fun money” each month, but if BOTH of you are getting $87.50 each week, (after you broke it down), that means you are spending $700 in “fun – I have no idea where this is going” money each month. I give myself $100 “fun” money for the whole month. $700 is a lot of money. $200 more a month than YS’s tuition. $8400 a year kind of money.
Just something to think about.
I commented a few weeks ago that it seemed likely that there were many inflexibilities in the budget that us readers were not aware of, and that these were likely to be kid-related. Private school tuition is one of the things I had in mind, so this post is certainly helping clarify a lot of the bigger picture. Many commenters have ascertained from your previous posts that your income is quite high and, coupled with living in a city that is overall still a low cost of living area, it was puzzling why the debt repayment was projected to take so long. It was especially jarring in some of the early posts that were discussing things like making your own laundry detergent and couponing. Not to diminish the value of every dollar that is saved, but I had been hoping to see a post like this one where we are finally talking about taking major chunks out of your debt EVERY MONTH. I can’t possibly question the choices you guys have made, especially when it comes to education — in the grand scheme of things, it seems to me that this is one of the better ways to “waste” money. However, now that this large monetary commitment is coming to an end, it is time to have a small celebration and really get serious about all the things that should have also been taken care of over the years (debt and retirement savings). I’m totally psyched to hear about the aggressive and ambitious date of December 2013 for credit card freedom. Now we’re talking! Unlike many folks, you guys are very fortunate to actually have the earning power to dig out of this deep hole relatively quickly by throwing not hundreds but thousands of dollars per month at it. And you are both still very young to make up for any lost time. But only if you stay disciplined! Trust me, in the end the satisfaction and the relief of not paying someone else just for the privilege of lending you money will be well worth the short term sacrifice. I applaud both of you for addressing these issues head-on, and I think that getting things out in the open is a major step. Now it is time to follow through and put this debt behind you once and for all!
A few months back I briefly touched on additional expenses that I would not get into the details of bc they have much to do with our divorces and career paths. Tuition is part of that as are some other obligations. sigh. Your comment was uplifting and very well timed! Thanks Joe.
No one deserves “extra” money or luxuries until your debt is paid off and your financial house is in order. Your husband has had YEARS of PLENTY of extra spending money – which is evident because he spent 100% of a large salary. Both of you need to develop new, responsible, frugal habits – not just add more “fun” money to your budgets so soon.
And, as has been suggested before, why not sell your cars, each get cars that are worth around $5000-7000 (which is plenty of car!) and be out of debt much, much, much faster. Every month you decide to drive around those giant depreciating assets that are loaded with debt, you’re costing yourselves hundreds of dollars that could be “fun” money.
I second (eighth?) the small celebration, and then move on to the other debt. If you don’t celebrate, y’all might fall off the cart. Small goals help people achieve big results. That’s why Americans celebrate high school graduation, even though it’s expected.