So How Much Did My Physical Therapy Cost?

I still haven’t received my bill from my physical therapist yet for my knee problem. But, I did get my explanation of benefits from my insurance provider so I know how much my bill is going to be. I cannot believe how much it cost!

$222/visit

The first visit I had, I can understand that cost and I’m okay with that cost. My condition was evaluated and that was some real one-on-one time. The second visit, well, it was cut short for one so it was less than an hour (50 minutes). Then I spent 10 minutes on an exercise bike while the trainer sat and pedaled next to me. Then I was given an ultrasound treatment (which did feel nice for a few hours after the visit) and the trainer taped me knee (only to have it unravel by the time I went to bed). The last five minutes were spent reviewing my homework exercises. To me, it wasn’t worth the continued visits since the trainer said they would be the exact same thing.

After my insurance, each visit cost almost $65. Let’s say that I stuck with the program for the rest of the five weeks at two visits/week. That would have been $650. I knew I had to fess up to my doctor since I saw her again a little bit ago. Her response? She asked if I received some exercises to do. I told her that I did and I have been doing them and I am also trying to be more active overall. I also said I was concerned about the cost. She understood and gave one of those smiles like, “Yeah, I know they are pretty ex-pen-sive!” but she couldn’t say that LOL. But she approved.

A few changes have made a huge difference. My weekends are basically pain free now. During the week is a different story, though, since I still sit for long periods and it hurts my knees. Inactivity has taken a toll on my body and it is going to take some time to reverse it but it can be done. I am making progress, though

Posted by Tricia on September 2, 2008 at 12:58 AM in Insurance | 43 Comments »
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C responded:
Posted: September 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 am
I know. Isn’t it expensive. I have been going to a chiroprator doctor for a few months now, to the tune of $55 a visit. They wanted me to go for 2 visits a week, but I can’t afford that. I have been going once a week, but that is still too expensive, even with insurance coverage. I orignally started to go for numbing in my hand. I went to my family doctor and after doing some tests, he suggested that I start exercising. It has gotten a little better with the physical therapy, but I am going to stop going, since it is too expensive. I hear ya.
James@capitalcouplesfinance.com responded:
Posted: September 2nd, 2008 at 7:52 am
Yeah…been there. Last summer I shattered my elbow and broke my arm in 8 places. This put me in PT for 6 months and my insurance only covered me for 24 visits. At 2-3 visits a week, that didn’t even last for half of the time I had to go. Luckily, the PT office agreed to let me keep coming and just pay the amount the insurance would have paid had I still had coverage ($43 per visit). Overall, I probably paid about $2000.
Angela responded:
Posted: September 2nd, 2008 at 8:34 am
I fell AT WORK and broke my foot and you wouldn’t believe the non-sense I went through with workmans comp. They had to approve every friday if I could go the next week. Then as I got back to work they transfered me to a store for 2 weeks over an hour away and since our whole departement went we carpooled. I couldn’t keep up with therapy and and work. I also got a hefty 295 bill from the emergency clinic I went to when I fell. It’s currently in collections in MY name as I am waiting for the store to pay. MAJOR BIG BOX retailer. They have the money. I hear ya on the cost of physical therapy.
Matt responded:
Posted: September 2nd, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Ouch! I can not believe how much it costs just to be well or get better! Between lack of insurance coverage and high deductibles it is a wonder anyone is able to survive these days. My insurance has a $2,000 deductible per year before they begin to pay anything (after that it is 100% though). I suppose it would be great in horrible circumstances like an accident but it really dissuades me from wanting to get regular checkups or do anything proactive.
Esther responded:
Posted: September 2nd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Tricia, I have the exact same knee problems you have, and I have found that those knee support wraps that you can buy at the drug store help me quite a bit. Don’t get the kind that are only for use during sports. Just buy the regular open kneecap velcro-adjustable wrap braces that you can wear every day and for extended periods. I usually wear mine when I’m doing chores and stuff at home (they can even be worn under jeans or chinos). I take them off when I exercise. My condition has improved greatly over the last month, and I hope to be back to 100% very soon. Good luck!

BTW, I’m “lucky” enough to have a good insurance plan, and so I went through physical therapy for at least 2 months (twice a week visits). I can honestly tell you that you are not missing a thing by skipping out on the therapy sessions and doing the exercises by yourself. Incidentally, a waitress friend gave me the tip about the drug store knee braces…
katie responded:
Posted: September 2nd, 2008 at 6:07 pm
As a physical therapist (who is not getting paid these kind of hourly rates). If you are not significantly improving within 4 visits…. I would suggest finding a different Physical Therapist. Also I am assuming that you went to a private practice did you speak to the owner about payment? Are you definitely going to be billed for this? Very often the explanation of benefits does not necessarily mean that you will be billed…. Good luck with the knee, glad to hear you are feeling better.
Jonathan responded:
Posted: September 2nd, 2008 at 7:01 pm
I had to do some PT as well recently. I think the first visit cost nearly $400 before insurance. I stopped going after 3 visits due to the cost (wonder how much the PT keeps vs. the hospital) and also the time commitment during the day.

I just tried to pay attention and have them write everything down so I could repeat it at home.
Tricia responded:
Posted: September 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Esther – thanks for the tip about the knee brace! I did like the taping they did, but it just didn’t stay long at all. If that tape wasn’t so expensive I’d buy some and try to do it myself.

Katie – where I live, I’m limited to only a few places to go for therapy. I didn’t go to a private practice, it was through a hospital. That’s probably a big reason I couldn’t find out how much the visits cost before hand. I’m pretty sure I am going to be billed for this – but I have no idea when the bill will arrive. Our hospital is horrible at timely billing.
JD responded:
Posted: September 3rd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Hey Tricia,

I just ready your first blog post here. Is it just the medical bills that caused the debt. I’ll have to read more on your blog. I just googled “debt blogs” and yours was the first to show up. I just got done writing a post about how pissed I am at Wells Fargo…. and wanted to see if anyone else might be feeling my pain. You obviously are feeling the pain… I saw the title of the previous post that said you made it to 8K or so. I hope you reach your goal. It would feel so weightless.
Allie responded:
Posted: November 11th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I went to a PT that charged $72 per 15 minutes, which works out to $288 an hour. (Yeah, I can see why they don’t quote it hourly.) It was for plantar fasciitis and I initially went to get deep tissue massage, which my doc said might help. I ended up just going to two sessions, which were just her showing me some exercises, kind of making sure I was doing them right, then wandering around and looking out the window or joking with her colleague while I did the exercises and stretches. She never did do the massage. I quit going and was just googling to see if this was a total ripoff (my insurance paid 90 percent minus my deductible) or if it was in line with what they usually charge. For $288 an hour, I expect a lot more than a kind of gross communal room and a glorified gym teacher sort of supervising me while I do some exercises! (No offense to PTs – but this woman clearly wasn’t 100 percent focused and reminded me of the gym teachers that would say “give me 100 sit ups” and would then wander out into the hall to chat with another teacher…)
Jim responded:
Posted: January 29th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
I’m a PT, and work in a small Hospital based outpatient clinic. The rates for PT services are crazy these days. Our clinic billing range is from $100 to almost $400 per hour. Our actual reimbursement from most insurances,including Medicare is 40 to 55% of billable charges. I have seen the co-pays up to $30 per visit,and I understand some co-pays are even higher. The PT’s in our clinic get paid 30 to $40 per hour. I do talk to the patients, I work with, about their allowable benefits. It is very important to contact your inurance company about what they will pay for, and know more than the therapist, it will get the therapist attention. Home Exercise programs are very important, to control costs.
Frank responded:
Posted: May 31st, 2009 at 10:15 pm
I was sent by my neurologist for PT for a frozen shoulder. THe cost was $880.00 per hour!!!! I only discovered this after going to 9 sessions and the bill showed up on my insurance carriers website. I think I am being robbed; can anyone comment? I immediately cancelled all remaining sessions.
Luis responded:
Posted: October 7th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
People be awared that Medical Care is not free. There is a minimun cost of producing a session in Physical Therapy including but not limited to salaries, rent, taxes, employee benefits(vacations, sick days, holidays, 401K, etc.) office medical and gym equipments, profit, and all other overhead of the clinic. Depending the size of the office, the number of employees, the location of the clinic a(SF vs small town), the length of the session, and all other amenities that the office offers you, etc.; a minimun cost per visit should average about $150. A simple mathematic explains the cost much better. Does you insurance pays for this minimal costs?
maureen responded:
Posted: October 27th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
well, i’m currently reviewing my PT bill and it cost me about $194 per session, including $24 to basically ‘rent’ an ice pack for 15 minutes. plus, my main therapist wanted me to come back for an extra visit even though 2 assistants didn’t think i needed it. if i’d have known it would cost me another $200, i definitely wouldn’t have said yes. sorry, luis, but i think the cost is out of line with what you get.
Bryan Davidson responded:
Posted: November 21st, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I am a physical therapist. I am not sure where most of these numbers are coming from. I work in New York. If you go to an outpatient facility with in network benefits the bill is much less. Most insurance companies pay $30-60 dollars a session. That does not count your co-pay so if your copay is $40 the insurance company is only paying $10 in most instances. With worker’s comp and no-fault they pay $67 a session in New York. Just to give you guys some additional numbers. If you are not happy at the place you are going and not getting the care go someplace else.
barbara taylor responded:
Posted: December 13th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
I just received a bill for pt. I went three times for one hour each at St Joseph’s in Houston. I was told that $250 would settle my account. Now, after 10 months, I have gotten a bill for $2,400. That amounts to $1000 per hour..
Steve Ferro responded:
Posted: January 4th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
I just had my first pt session this morning for low-back pain. The therapist showed me some exercises to strengthen my core ab muscles and suggested I return 1x/week. I called the clinic later to ask what the charges were: $191 for the evaluation, then 2 units of strength therapy at $105 each for a total of $401. Totally not worth the expense! I wish I had asked the cost BEFORE the session! Make sure you ask before your get ANYTHING done to you.
Dyanna Rezac responded:
Posted: January 19th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Several good points here. I am a physical therapist with a doctorate degree with a private practice. Thought I’d give some feedback on some of the comments:
1) If you are going to a PT and being treated by a tech, no one is following your exercises, you aren’t getting skilled care and manual therapy with a PT – go somewhere else!!! One of the reasons the rates are what they are for PT is it supposed to be administred with quality care and you are paying for the level of experience needed to provide that care (ie – 7 years to get a doctorate, 5 years for board cert, etc – we are not trained in a weekend course!!!) If you are bing treated like you are in a gym, yup, quit and join a gym for cheaper.
2) The original question was cash rate for a PT visit. If you are not using your insurance or don’t have any, most clinics offer a cash rate at time of service for $70-$100/visit.
3) What you see on an EOB is not what we get paid. We generally have a negotiated rate or are reimbursed at a much lower rate so you might see the bill was $250, we probably only receive $100. The national average of what it costs us to see you as a patient is $81/visit so, if your insurance only pays $65/visit that is a LOSS to us. If they pay $100, then we made $19 for your visit – most of you pay a heck of a lot more for your nails, hair or your car. What is your health worth?
Herb Silver responded:
Posted: February 13th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
This is very interesting for me to read, a physical therapist in private practice in Georgia. I spend the complete time a patient is with me, one on one. Legally I can not use a “tech” or an “aid” to assist me–in Georgia, only a licensed physical therapist can provide care. If you went to PT and were not treated by a PT and were charged as if you were being seen by a PT, that would be fraudulent if you were seen in a PT practice in Georgia. If you were seen in a PT practiced owned by a doctor or a hospital in Georgia, you could be legally charged and treated for PT services even when a non-licensed, none PT provided your care. No matter what I charge, I get reimbursed between $55 to $88/hour–I might charge $500 but I still get the $55-$88 from insurance companies including medicare. If you are not getting hands on, one on one care, instruction, supervision, you are not getting physical therapy (no matter what people are calling it). If you are doing things in the clinic you could do at home or in a gym, you are wasting your money. You should be getting a lot of explanation and justification for the procedures performed and making measurable progress in order to justify the expense. If that isn’t the case, please look for another clinic–most likely a private practice where you are getting the kind of care you feel comfortable paying for.
Mike responded:
Posted: February 15th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
I agree with you that your bill for $222 is slightly high, although like most people have said, you EOB is not the actual bill for you. Like Dyanna said you pay for the expertise of the person that treated you. Unfortunately, you also pay for the clinic’s lease, utilities and ancillary staff’s salaries. Also, the bill has to be inflated so the percentage that the insurance company actually pays to the clinic is high enough to make a small profit. At my clinic, we treat athletes and only athletes only and we do not bill insurance for this reason. We also only charge $50 per visit for a cash rate and we have a pre paid discount for those that we know will need 10 visits or more. Any ways just my two cents
Nicolette responded:
Posted: March 18th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
You may want to check out Priority Health’s website, which outlines an overall cost you should expect:
http://www.priorityhealth.com/memberservices/costs/therapy/physical

I agree with Dyanna that our health should be worth more than our appearance, but in reality many of us just don’t spend that sort of money all the time, particularly those living paycheck to paycheck. It would be great if I had extra money every week, but when you consider that many doctor’s also want to see you on a regular basis, your medications (thanks to Wal-Mart for their $4 prescriptions, I CAN afford to take my meds!) and all the other things they want you to do (see a PT, a massage therapist, an acupuncturist, take supplements, etc) it can get VERY expensive, very fast.

I just got back from my first PT, and I’m still on the fence. He talked with me, showed me some stuff and pressed on my back (lower back pain), which was nice; buttt…. was it worth $200? We’ll see the bill first; my insurance carrier told me they should have it processed in a week. I’ll See, too, what happens when I go for another appt. Thus far, I got more benefits from massage therapy for $50 an hour. If I’m paying out of pocket, I’ll be goimg were I get the most bang for my buck, so the next place after PT I’ll be trying will be an acupuncturist. After that, well, who knows? I may be back at PT.
Frank responded:
Posted: March 19th, 2010 at 1:08 am
Update
After months of fighting with the insurance company, the provider and the employer, the claim was covered partially. I ended up paying about $500 out of pocket, and the provider got about 40% reimbursement of the original billed amount. So the PT got roughly $4,000 for 12 hours of work. Although my shoulder healed, it cost be endless phone calls, letters, etc …… and it all resulted from a dispute as to whether the provider was coded as an ” out-patient” facility. The kicker is I had the provider verify coverage prior to beginning treatment, only to have the insurance company deny the claim repeatedly. It all worked out ( nearly 9 monts later), but the charges were still way excessive. I didnt know that the heat pack I was given to borrow each session was a $200 charge!
The treatment charges should be disclosed in advance. Only in healthcare do we buy without being told the price.
The PT gave great treatment, but most of it was exercise I did at home. I was lucky; the provider was patient and didnt harass me about payment while helping resolve the bill with Blue Cross. But lets face it: $880 an hour???? That amounts to a yearly cost of $1.8 million!! How many people earn that in a year? Next time, I’ll just go to the gym and fix it myself. My neuroligist ( movement disorder specialist) only bills $190 per visit. For the guys who talk about overhead, etc; dont even go there; I am an accountant so i know all about fact and fiction when it comes to overhead.
Dyanna Rezac responded:
Posted: March 19th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
If your PT got $4000 for 12 visits, ($880 is really excessive) they are grossly overbilling – trust me, we are like the rest of you making enough to pay our bills and get by, gut are not rich! You might want to consider reporting them to the state licensing agency and have them checked out. I agree with Nicolette, doesn’t sound like you got much for your money. Realize their is a difference in care – you should be getting more than a personal training session with a light psuedo rub down.
EdC responded:
Posted: March 23rd, 2010 at 10:32 pm
I am a licensed Athletic Trainer in Florida. 1. Having the Physical Therapy clinic bill the insurance company is a convenience to the patient. This should have been stated clearly in the initial paper work the patient fills out. 2. In years past when a P.T. clinic billed an insurance company and the full amount was not paid the clinic would just write it off. If the patient reads the fine print during the initial visit they will see that by signing the form the patient excepts full responsibility for all costs not paid for by the insurance company. I work for clinic that is not so kind and they go after every penny. How do I know? My wife was being seen in the clinic I work at and we were hit with a bill for over $1,000.00 In the process of trying to figure out what was going on we were sent to collections. My advice, ask what the cost will be up front and if possible work out an agreement to pay up front and then bill your own insurance.
EBose responded:
Posted: May 6th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
My 59 yr old brother had a right hemisphere hemorrhagic stroke in Africa 3 wks ago 4/12/2010. He has high blood pressure, and lately has been under a lot of stress(finances!!!). He has a severe left sided deficit and currently cannot do anything for himself. All the Physiotherapy received in Africa so far is range of motion of his arms and legs. They have not made any attempts to walk him, and instead 3-4 family members lift him to the bathroom, and his wife feeds him. He has not used even the unaffected arm or leg. Because of the economy I, my spouse and my other brother (all US citizens)and my sick brother, can only raise $15,000 to $20,000 to bring him to Raleigh, NC for treatment. He needs an in-patient rehab, PT and OT. He talks clearly, but slowly. He has no social security number , or any form of insurance. Because of the hefty bills, and cost of medical care in US, and because of our meager resources, we may have to forgo the in-patient part, and opt for an out-patient rehab. I am just wondering if anyone can give us an idea how to stretch our resources, while my brother still gets good care, or if there is any program around Raleigh, Durham NC that will not charge us the astronomical bills sent to insurance companies but charge bills comparable to the adjusted rate. Or if there are private PT/OT clinics that will give a very good care and just charge us per session.
Frank responded:
Posted: May 16th, 2010 at 7:16 am
More: There was no initial paperwork, not even a proposed course of treatment. The staff called my Ins company, said I was covered, and the game began. They kept adding visits, never said how long I should expect the treatment to last. The provider got over $4000 in actual reimbursement from Insurance, Plus $500 out of pocket. For 12 sessions (45 minutes, with 15 min heat pack), the bill sent to my insurance company was over $7000.
90% of the “therapy” was exercises I did at home. All I needed was 1 visit to tell me what to do, and maybe 1-2 follow ups to see if it worked.
They deliberately drag out the treatment to run up the bill. And beware! If they offer you any bandages, or wrist supports, you’ll be charged hundreds for something you can buy at a pharmacy for $20. The deal is, you get charged whatever they think they can get. There is no “standard”.
Their hourly rate should be posted, right at the reception desk. Had I seen “Your visit will be $800 or more per hour”, I could have said “No Thanks”.
Devdeep Ahuja responded:
Posted: August 5th, 2010 at 5:54 am
Hi, I am a physical therapist in UK and am quite surprised by these responses and this blog. Of course, $800 an hour is expensive but then the question needs to be raised, why the patients can’t ask their physical therapists what their charges are before treatment? In addition, the private pracitce in Uk is also expensive, but then we have NHS which provides free treatment to all the patients.
Judy responded:
Posted: August 9th, 2010 at 9:22 am
I lost my job before the first treatment (6/28) scheduled by my doctor and I told the therapist. I had insurance until the end of the month. The session helped, I was in a great deal of pain walking and really upset about loosing my job. When I went for my second session prior to the end of the month, the staff gave me a paper to sign and I asked what it said-they told me that the treatments were covered and I wouldn’t need to pay anything. That is what was on the paper (coverage 100%, copay-na, deductable-na) along with the if the insurance doesn’t pay you have to language. I came up with the funds to pay for the cobra coverage because I thought that it would be easier to get a job if I could walk without limping and continued treatment 2x a week. Now I have received an “explaination of benefits”-charge for 1st treatment $272.00, there was no payment made by the insurance and no adjustment or discount to the charge because of the insurance, all $272.00 was applied to deductable as my responsibility. I was so mislead. And I still haven’t gotten a bill for my 6/8 6/24 and 7/12 doctors appointments. Of course the PT staffer who told me the treatments were covered is on vacation-I have canceled my future appointments. Any input on how you got the insurance company to cover the treatments or the PT to reduce their charges would really be appreciated.
Anita responded:
Posted: September 6th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
As a physical therapist who has had a private practice for 23 years I understand the high rates being charged and a pateint should know up front what those charges are AND the care should be provided by a licensed physical therapist or licenesed physical therapist assistant. I know what it is like not to be paid by insurance companies. I also know what it is like to help someone who then decides to keep the insurance money and not pay me. People are happy to agree to fees when they are in pain but once they feel better then the price is too high.
Make sure you undertand the fees up front. Billing per 15 minutes has nothing to do with not wanting to mention an hourly rate. Insurance companies have paid in 15 minute increments for decades. It’s not unusual for a GOOD PT to be able to see someone for 15 to 30 minutes. Patients should be given a home program to follow which will keep frequency of visits and cost down. If you are not seeing results within 3 sessions and your therapist does not change the approach used you need to see another PT or may need to seek further assessment with your MD. Make sure you are seeing a therapist who provides hands on care and doesn’t leave you alone on equipment that you can use in a gym. Do NOT pay for heat or ice in an office!! Medicare does not pay for this either. Education is also a key. A responsible PT will teach you about your problem, how you can treat it on your own and how to control it if it is a chronic problem. It is costly to run a private practice PT clinic and fees are high but you should get results that improve your life. I’m no longer in private practice. Remember, ask a lot of questions up front. Talk to the PT directly as opposed to the front desk if you are unclear about treatment and charges. If the therapist will no talk to you go somewhere else. I wish you all health and hope this has helped you.
Greg responded:
Posted: January 5th, 2011 at 6:07 am
As a PT clinic owner, I am frustrated just reading all of the complaints being brought forth. I can say that in our practice our average charge is approx 175/hr and that is typically a 45-50min visit with direct one-on-one care from a PT. As for the hot packs and ice that are being charged… we don’t charge for that time with the patient (they are laying there while I work with other people) and I can’t justify charging a patient for ice or heat that they can do at home. Yes we do mainly manual therapy and exercise in our facility and these are the higher charges – however research justifies these treatments for positive outcomes. In addition, we don’t spend the time doing things in the therapy session that you, the patient, can do at home. Granted we will review it once on the next session to assure that you are doing it correctly. As a PT I apologize to those that are being given a poor view of our profession. Your care should be educational, proactive, research based, and provided in a proper one-on-one fashion with a PT or PTA. In addition we have our patients sign an agreement after the first visit and their benefits have been reviewed – as to the basic charges, expected coverage – but being a patient myself, I always take the time to look at my benefits and ask many, many questions. I don’t go to a car dealer and sign the contract and then ask the price or a grocery store for that matter. So why do this for your health? Be educated and be involved. If you are in question of the services you are receiving or feel that PT isn’t helping, then ask the clinic to provide you a recommendation of another clinic or provider because you should feel comfortable with your care and it should be affordable. Most importantly… remember that one experience isn’t every experience, so be open to another try and ask more questions in the future. There are a lot of excellent PTs out there, but as in every profession or walk of life – a few will give a bad taste and a poor impression. God bless.
Brenda responded:
Posted: June 3rd, 2011 at 11:06 am
SHOP AROUND! And make the PT facility you then choose tell you up front what your costs will be. And what they intend for your treatment plan. I, like most of the others posting here, just went to the closest one after my knee Dr. said it would help. The PT facilities are in business first to make money and then to perform a service. Like any other business. My per visit cost turned out to be $226. Too much but I take some responsibility for not doing my due diligence up front.
Nicole responded:
Posted: June 18th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Another problem is they might give you a low rate up front, but when you receive the bill – it is 5 times or even 10 times as they said!
keefe responded:
Posted: July 20th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
I am a PT with a private practice (for 11 years) with a cash rate of $100 for the initial visit and $75 for follow up visits. If we bill an insurance company the rates will rooughly double but the average reimbursement in our area of florida is roughly $90 a visit. I could see hospitals billing outrageous fees as mentioned in earlier posts, but everyone knows only an uneducated consumer goes to a hospital looking for a bargain.
I guess if you don’t trust your health care provider, go elsewhere or get the price in writing.
andrew responded:
Posted: August 6th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
As a Doctor of Physical Therapy, having spent almost 9 years b/w getting my bachelors and then my t-DPT I feel that the comments made my many of the patients are grossly unfair.
1. the patient needs to understand that whether you charge $50 or $500 per visit, the actual amount of money an insurance may pay the clinic for that visit is much less ( possibly $40-$90).
2.The cost of our lengthy education, the difficulty of the courses taken ( cannot compare to the education of personal trainers, athletic trainers, PT assistants etc.)easily justifies the higher cost .
3. The consumer needs to take into account that it costs a lot of money to run a bussiness ( salaries of ancillary staff, secretaries, utilities, rent, liability insurance, cost of taking continuing education courses etc. adds up to a significant amount of money each year ) and has to be covered by the cost of each visit.
4. The consumer may see therapy as a collection of a few exercises and some modalities , without understanding that the level of education a DPT has to have to make the right evaluation and diagnosis, choose the right exercise, know when to give that exercise and when such an exercise may be contraindicated takes a lot of training and knowledge ( not achived overnight but with years of college training and practice) .
5. patients do not understand that taking care of their billing is a “courtesy” service and as a result the vast majority of them have no idea of the hassle the clinic staff have to put up with and labor costs ( paying staff to spend hours on the phone )when dealing with insurance companies.
6. Why would anyone with a doctoral degree accept a $50-100 fee for spending an hour with someone ( indidentally physicians may spend 8-10 minutes with a patient and charge the patient’s insurance $200-300 for an office visit) when a plummer charges upwards of $180 for spending a few minutes fixing a leak ( and lets compare the level of training and education of those guys to university level training of a doctor of physical therapy ) .
7. I personally know of many patients that would gladdly pay $200-$500 on a few minutes in an MD’s office getting Botox, or on their pets or getting highlights for their hair , or spending money on large screen TV’s or gambling , then come to the clinic complaining that they have no money to pay for their health care.
It is interesting by the way how many patients keep coming to therapy so long as their insurance “covers” their visit, getting their “massages, hot packs” etc, then, when their co-pay goes up all of a sudden they get “cured” and stop coming despite the pain they have been having all this time.
I feel that most patients have been conditioned to expect their insurance to cover most or all of the cost of health care and they want ” a lot of care” for ” as little as possible” which will never happen . They do not understand that a health care professional ( such as MD, DPT, highly trainined nurses, etc) will not settle for low payments when we have spent many years and countless weekends studying for very difficult courses,training countless hours in labs and clinics and assuming the liability that comes with taking someone else’s health in our hands.
rick responded:
Posted: August 29th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Andrew, highly trained nurses cannot make anywhere neat what a Pt can make even with similar education in terms of years spent obtaining it and knowledge. Maybe half, if that and a lot more stress and danger involved (working with patients often results in serious injuries). However, it is the charging of massive amounts of money for services that has created the system (health insurance) we have, one in which 95% of people could never obtain on their own, so they work hard just to get the benefits and still live paycheck to paycheck. And yes, a good trainer with good working knowledge can get similar results at a fraction of the cost.
rick responded:
Posted: August 29th, 2011 at 12:12 pm
near, not neat…sorry.
Mike responded:
Posted: September 6th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Andrew,
In regards to your response:
I have a Master’s Degree in Exercise Science and spent lots of time in school as well. I can not even make close to that. To charge that kind of money is still absurd.
You sound arrogant and pampas. Not everyone has rich parents and can afford not work for 9 years to become a Doctor. That is the main thing that prevented me form becoming an MD, I couldn’t afford to support myself through school. Anyone can go through med school, allot of it has to do with one’s resources. To be honest, knowing many PTs and MDs, try to calling your self a Dr. in front of an MD and get laughed at. Yes, you do have to know allot to be a DPT, but nurses do a hell of a lot more and deserve to paid more.

FWIW
A little over 12 years ago a PT degree was a 4 year program and that’s it. So there is a large % of pts out there that may only have a 4 year degree with some continuing education.
I believe people are being raped by the health care industry. To charge $250 an hour and then get sent home with some exercises you’ll never do and a little rubber band is ridiculous! this is why this is such a high occurrence of injuries is because people generally only get partially rehabbed because they cant afford continue through the whole process because the insurance company does not want to pay these astronomical amounts!!!!!
Dr Makuve, PT responded:
Posted: January 1st, 2012 at 1:05 am
Andrew – being a Dr or not does not matter; its the the value of the service that matters. For instance, most people have no issues with paying a massage therapist $50/30 minutes, a plumber $75/hour or a mechanic $100.00/hour. We pay these amounts because we see value in their services right? By the same token, if do not see the value in the services we offer as PTs you should have your “doctor” or nurse do your rehabilitation or simply do it yourself. Chiropractic docs, doctors of PT or doctors of medicine all have a unique part to play in healthcare and I do not apologize for my profession being compensated fairly. PT fees are a minute percentage of the entire episode of care. The fact is the surgery that brought you to the PT costs a lot more and yet without PT the very reason for the surgery can be negated. So to you Andrew – you, the nurse or “doctor” may laugh at those who are called Doctors of PT; the fact is that does not change the title comes with having satisfied the qualifications to hold the title. So, lets get over it! Physical therapists are providing much needed care at a fair cost (not necessarily affordable). Nevertheless, in this day and age where all healthcare is expensive, I suggest you point your frustration at the entire system that has made it so easy for lawyers to make a living out of suing healthcare providers and insurance companies who relentlessly deny us payments for care we have already provided.
Alex H responded:
Posted: January 12th, 2012 at 5:48 pm
I agree with Dr. Makuve, it is the value of the service that matters. Personally, I don’t feel a rate of over $40 / hour ($80K annually) is worth paying a physical therapist for the quality of care, ability to help, and level of knowledge PTs possess for treating athletic injuries (I can’t comment on other types since I’ve never seen a PT for anything other than athletic injuries).

I’ve been to several PTs, and there are many who simply have cookie cutter programs to treat athletes. It takes a while to find a good one who knows a methodology to treat your problems. Just because you spend time in school, doesn’t make a good therapist. Graduating from school is just the starting point.

Andrew, you sound like what is wrong with the system. There are many post doc research scientists who spend more time that PTs and as much in school as MDs, yet are paid < $50K / year for their services ($25/hr).
Justin PT responded:
Posted: January 21st, 2012 at 1:33 am
I am a physical therapy business owner in Idaho. We collect $79/visit on average which is usually at least an hour in the clinic. The prices I see listed seem crazy. I’m sorry our profession is coming across as charging ridiculous prices. Therapists now are required to complete 7 years of college and usually come out of school with a high debt load then start at a $60,000 year salary. A good physical therapist will give value to the healthcare system. Your time and money can be well spent.
jenxia responded:
Posted: January 23rd, 2012 at 7:22 am
I am living in ABQ, NM. Near end of 2011 I have seen doctors and physical therapy for my shoulder and up-back pain caused from osteoporosis. I have $2000 in my accumulating healthy account which detected each month from salary to cover my healthy cost before insurance really pick up a portion of the cost, if we don’t spent it, it will go to next year.

After only four time visits for two acupuncture specialists, about $500 was gone from my account. I did not feel any better of pain on my back, and was told that it needs treatment of twice a week for a long and unknown period by both acupuncture specialists, for my pain is something I need to see them long before and I can not expect to a cure in a short time. So I stopped it and seek another opinion.

I had a visit to a specialist doctor of rheumatologist $200 and X-ray is $300. He suggest me to take twice amount of pain killer as I used to do ( I got stomach problem after I take the painkiller and can’t take it any more) and send me to physical therapy for twice/week for a month and ask me to come back to him after a month. So I had had two times visit to a physical Therapist for far, and the bill came back was $980, although I had asked how much it cost me to visit them and was told me $250 each time before I started to make schedule.
The first visit to physical therapist was mostly chat on the history of my problem and identified the source of pain, I got some advice on how to sit before a computer, less than a hour because she was in late. The second time I was shown how to workout on a softball and told to go online.

The second time visit isn’t much help to me at all because I have being actively workout Taiji and dance. I know and practice those movement before and it does not help my problem.

I had the same pain problem as before I had visited all those professionals, but all my money in my healthy account was gone.

I am living in ABQ, NM. Near end of 2011 I have seen doctors and physical therapy for my shoulder and up-back pain caused from osteoporosis. I could not sit in front of computer and also got headache.

I have $2000 in my accumulating healthy account which detected each month from salary to cover my healthy cost before insurance really pick up a portion of the cost, if we don’t spent it, it will go to next year.

After only four time visits for two acupuncture specialists, about $500 was gone from my account. I did not feel any better of pain on my back, and was told that it needs treatment of twice a week for a long and unknown period by both acupuncture specialists, for my pain is something I need to see them long before and I can not expect to a cure in a short time. So I stopped it and seek another opinion.

I had a visit to a specialist doctor of rheumatologist, cost about for $250 and another $350 for X-ray. He suggest me to take twice amount of pain killer I used to take when I had pain ( I developed a stomach pain problem from taking the painkiller and can’t take it any more) and send me to physical therapy for twice/week for a month and ask me to come back to him after a month.

I visited a physical Therapist twice so far, and the bill came back was $980. I known it is expensive but I did not expect that much, for I had asked how much it cost me for a visit and was told $250 each time before I started the schedule.

The first visit to physical therapist was most on chatting the history of my problem and identifying the source of pain, I got some advice on how to sit before a computer. The whole process was less than a hour because the therapy was late that day by traffic. The second time I was shown how to workout on a softball and do balance standing.

The visit isn’t much help to me at all because I have being actively workout Taiji and dance. I knew and am practicing those movements she suggested and they does not help my problem. I could not function as I could without the pain.

The same pain problem as before I had visited all those professionals kept bothering me , but the money in my healthy account was gone.

This was the only time after all those year paying healthy insurance, I really started to use it looking for help for my healthy problem. After this experience I realize that I can not offered to see any professional doctor for real problem of my chronicle ailment. I have to take it by myself. So I go online get educated myself and take care it in my hand instead to seek any help.

They seems don’t care to cure you or not, they are just after your money. They can check out how much money in my healthy amount and took it all once. I wonder if they really sure they can help me, properly they are not.

Recently I got an advice from my friend and now I start to go to gym and do some weight-bearing training. After a few workout I feel better.
Dr Makuve, PT responded:
Posted: January 30th, 2012 at 11:34 pm
Jenxia … first I want to acknowledge and apologize for the healthcare system failing you. Second, I want to reiterate like others here have mentioned; there are, like any profession bad and good PTs. As a profession, we are as good as our weakest link of course. So, I am going to see if I can help you in the right direction to ensure that your future experience with PTs is not as bad…or at least so that when you shop for one, you go to the right PT right away. The first thing you need to know is that most PTs are good at general PT but have one area they are really good at. In fact, there are PTs who are board certified in orthopedics, pediatrics, geriatrics, womens health and the like. On the other hand, there are PTs who have a lot of experience in one area and have accumulated a lot of up-to date knowledge through continuing education. The point here is, know the strengths of your PT. A family physician can do as good a job as a specialist; but you have greater chance of success with a specialist – the same goes with PTs. The second issue to address is to be a very active participant in the goal setting and plan of care that your therapist puts together at the evaluation. Essentially, if the goals do not make sense to you, you are setup to fail and most likely likely not going to take part in the home exercise program to the full extent.

Remember that the PT, at least those who have kept up with the APTA vision 2020 is there to evaluate the patient to determine impairments that are the result of neuromascular and/musculoskeletal insults. That is what we treat! Through special tests and clinical reasoning we should be able to treat, refer or treat and refer. The ability of a PT to recognize their limitations is an important part of our practice because it ensures patient safety and frankly prevents the type of stories I am reading here. Most of all, talk to your PT about how you really feel about the care. Most PTs really care about the outcomes of their patients; unfortunately most patients (me included) are not good about telling the practitioner that the plan of care stinks.

I wish you the best of luck with everything. I am grateful you have found a remedy that works.
Courtney responded:
Posted: February 10th, 2012 at 6:25 pm
I really appreciate all the responses from PTs- for those of us who don’t have a lot of expereince navagating these services, it’s very helpful to have an idea of what questions to ask. Justin PT from Idaho- if you see this post, is your practice in Boise? I’m looking for a PT practice in the area.

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